Trump creates groundwork for new service branch

[printcraft]

Does anyone remember the last very old actor turned president nearly bankrupted the country believing the movie 'Star Wars' was real?

 

[Brad69]

The Army has a “Space Command” as well as the Navy and Air Force it will just be combining existing forces under a new branch.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Space_and_Missile_Defense_Command

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Network_Warfare_Command

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_Space_Command

This effort will allow the new branch to focus on the mission of space without the distractions of other demands from parent organizations.
Do not believe because of a treaty or “gun free” sign weapons are not being developed for Space.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Is anyone else bothered by the fact weapons in space are illegal by international treaty?

Lulz, no.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/14/rus...estructive-space-weapons-us-intelligence.html

China has been testing anti-satellite missiles for over a decade. https://www.cfr.org/report/china-space-weapons-and-us-security

Is anyone else bothered by the fact the US Air Force has a space division?
And civilian non-military space division exists, it's called NASA...

I'm assuming you read the thread.

Dunno. It still has to be funded, etc. I agree with Sec. Mattis. Put it under USAF like the USMC is to the USN.

Makes a lot more sense logistically, IMO, then a new branch from scratch. If it eventually becomes needed, detach it like the USAF was from the Army.

Does anyone remember the last very old actor turned president nearly bankrupted the country believing the movie 'Star Wars' was real?

No, but I remember an old actor turned president who used the Strategic Defense Initiative to try to counter the "suicide pact" of Mutual Assured Destruction, greatly advanced science and technology in the realms of physics and computers, and won the Cold War. The media tagged it "Star Wars" because why not?

I'm not a big Trump fan, but he's right on this one. If the US wants to retain our position in the world, we can't cede space and satellites to the Chinese any more then we could cede nuclear superiority to the USSR.

 

[JeepHammer]

Not to clarify with actual facts, but space based weapons are not only banned under intonational treaty, but considered war crimes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Space_Treaty

It's debatable about defensive systems, such as particle weapons or lasers.

There is a difference between space based weapons, and ground based weapons fired into space targeting military satellites.
What Trump is proposing is most definitely offensive weapons of mass destruction.

As to reference, See Dunning-Kruger effect.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

 

[rhino]

Ah... list grows again. Much better now.

 

[rhino]

No, but I remember an old actor turned president who used the Strategic Defense Initiative to try to counter the "suicide pact" of Mutual Assured Destruction, greatly advanced science and technology in the realms of physics and computers, and won the Cold War. The media tagged it "Star Wars" because why not?

I remember a lecture about the SDI when I was in ROTC back in 1983. The slides still referred to it as "High Frontiers" and I remember thinking even then that if they manage 5% of it, it's going to be very cool in terms of spinoff and related tech.

My favorite part was "Brilliant Pebbles," which was essentially a high tech shotgun.

We received an NBC lecture at the same time, which was less fun and downright disturbing. The "Yellow Rain" the Soviets used in Afghanistan was not a good thing.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

As to reference, See Dunning-Kruger effect.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

Speaking of Dunning-Kruger...

Let's examine your statements with your own links.

Not to clarify with actual facts, but space based weapons are not only banned under intonational treaty, but considered war crimes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Space_Treaty

[FONT=&amp]However, the Treaty does not prohibit the placement of [/FONT]conventional weapons[FONT=&amp] in orbit and thus some highly destructive attack strategies such as [/FONT]kinetic bombardment[FONT=&amp] are still potentially allowable[/FONT]

So, no, offensive weapons aren't banned. Certain types of weapons are. Can you provide some source to the proposal including WMDs in space?

 

[Leadeye]

I remember when SDI was announced and the deluge of derision mixed with fear mongering poured on it by big media. To this day I think it was a calculated move by Regan or somebody working for him to provide a big chip at a USSR summit and in that respect it performed well. Picking Edward Teller as the front man was a perfect choice, a better combination of driven, scary, and USSR hating could not be found. The possibility of functioning SDI in the near future at that time period was probably remote, but it was enough to worry the USSR, much like Patton's phantom army during Overlord.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I remember when SDI was announced and the deluge of derision mixed with fear mongering poured on it by big media. To this day I think it was a calculated move by Regan or somebody working for him to provide a big chip at a USSR summit and in that respect it performed well.

When one side starts from Mutually Assured Destruction to Only Your Assured Destruction, it tends to have an effect. Even if it's 25-30 years out, you know it's coming and if you can't match it you either have to start MAD or watch your position erode.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Is anyone else bothered by the fact weapons in space are illegal by international treaty?

Is anyone else bothered by the fact the US Air Force has a space division?
And civilian non-military space division exists, it's called NASA...

Does anyone remember the last very old actor turned president nearly bankrupted the country believing the movie 'Star Wars' was real?

USAF Space Command, a Major Command (echelon below HQ USAF) since 1982. 14th Air Force comes under SpaceCom, they have the Flying Tigers patch. That bothers me.

 

[Leadeye]

During the Geneva summit in 1985 SDI was at the top of Gorbachev's list and a lot came out of that summit as far as relations between Regan and Gorbachev. When you think about it, SDI just fades away with the USSR. Some people sell President Regan short, but I think he did an excellent job of closing out the cold war, something that had haunted my generation all our lives.

 

[halfmileharry]

Is anyone else bothered by the fact weapons in space are illegal by international treaty?

Is anyone else bothered by the fact the US Air Force has a space division?
And civilian non-military space division exists, it's called NASA...

Does anyone remember the last very old actor turned president nearly bankrupted the country believing the movie 'Star Wars' was real?

Is anyone actually assuming Star Wars wasn't built under the Reagan administration?
Do you think our Govt wouldn't hide something from the general public?
Now for the Door Gunner MOS.... Door gunners used to have a very short life expectancy back in my day. I think it's because we didn't get the cool camo gear back then.

 

[Brad69]

I heard that the door gunners on the Space shuttle had a rough life?

 

[Dead Duck]

Cochrane still has plenty of time to work on the Phoenix.

[video=youtube;QTJcV3B6iEk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTJcV3B6iEk[/video]

 

[JeepHammer]

I remember a lecture about the SDI when I was in ROTC back in 1983. The slides still referred to it as "High Frontiers" and I remember thinking even then that if they manage 5% of it, it's going to be very cool in terms of spinoff and related tech.

My favorite part was "Brilliant Pebbles," which was essentially a high tech shotgun.

What I didn't understand was so many specific research facilities already up & running, but everything duplicated at taxpayer expense, and not just once, but all the major contractors built facilities from scratch at taxpayer expense.
I wasn't crazy about the big idea of putting thousands of nuclear reactors in space (and who knows how many nuclear weapons) since space lab and a bunch of other junk was falling out of orbit about that time.

We received an NBC lecture at the same time, which was less fun and downright disturbing. The "Yellow Rain" the Soviets used in Afghanistan was not a good thing.

The Soviets were past black flag, it was red flag war.
They were heavy metal poisoning water supplies that had been used by the civilian population for centuries, they were laying out delayed fuse mines disguised as children's toys, they were using everything in the chemical stockpiles, and most experts think biologicals were used.

Between terrain, the difficulty of dealing with surrounding countries, and the weapons/area denial used it was a nightmare.

 

[JeepHammer]

During the Geneva summit in 1985 SDI was at the top of Gorbachev's list and a lot came out of that summit as far as relations between Regan and Gorbachev. When you think about it, SDI just fades away with the USSR. Some people sell President Regan short, but I think he did an excellent job of closing out the cold war, something that had haunted my generation all our lives.

The big deal at the 1985 summit was Neutron weapons.
The 'Neutron Bomb' in specific. That scared the crap out of the Soviets.
It's mostly like the mythic EMP that can shut down a specific country (and no place else), through a targeted disinformation campaign the Soviets were convinced the US had developed a way to build neutron weapons.
They had failed for over 2 decades since the disinformation campaign started, but were convinced the US had succeeded.
(Not a Reagan adminstration action)

Now, keep in mind Carter adminstration got the US out of chemical & biological weapons under treaty with 109 other countries.
Reagan/Bush sold the US chemical & biological plants to Iraq (violation of treaty & international law) and supplied both sides of the Iran-Iraq war.
Iraq used chemical weapons on Iran, and on its own people.
Less than 10 years later, in war with Iraq...

This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, President Elect (not president) Reagan & GHW Bush brokered a high tech weapons deal with Iran, a terrorist nation at the time. It's how the Reagan adminstration got American hostages held in Iran released on his inauguration day after being held captive for 444 days.

I was a Young Republican, believed every word that came out of the Reagan Adminstration.
I was in the Marines, I saw what the Reagan adminstration did in Central America, Central & North Africa and the Middle East personally, first hand.
My opinion of Reagan & Bush can't be lower.

 

[Thor]

The soviets actually had a weapon mounted on their space station, they fired it before they de-orbited it just to say they did. Everyone with an ICBM already has an offensive space weapon. And as noted the Chi-Coms have already used anti-sat weapons.

Space became a war fighting domain during WWII. Coordinating the services efforts there is a needed thing.

 

[Thor]

https://insights.globalspec.com/article/9613/mysterious-russian-satellite-behaving-abnormally

Possible Russian space based weapon...

 

[Sylvain]

"To give substance to this doctrine and ensure the development and reinforcement of our space capabilities, a space command will be created next September in the air force," Macron said, adding that it would later become the Space and Air Force.

France is also getting its own Space Force.

https://www.france24.com/en/20190713-macron-france-space-force

 

[Dead Duck]

And so it begins.