Trump creates groundwork for new service branch

[BehindBlueI's]

Getting to the moon in 1969 with the occupants of the lunar module alive was a huge accomplishment given the primitive technology. Getting them back to Earth alive from the moon was borderline miraculous. You get that group of engineers, physicists, and math geeks working together to solve a very specific problem and their not only going to push existing tech to its limits, what they learned along the way about those limitations and how they were circumvented had a profound effect on the next generation of technological advancements. It was simply amazing what they did and were it not for that seemingly absurd goal with questionable value to the taxpayer, we'd still be talking on rotary dial phones and engaged in all sorts of other primitive techno-savagery.

I wonder how many children it inspired to go into what we now call STEM career paths? How much of a stepping stone for ideas and tech that weren't even directly related to space travel resulted?

Sitting here stagnating just guarantees we'll be left behind by societies that don't. Humans are built to explore, and America can either lead or follow.

 

[searpinski]

I wonder how many children it inspired to go into what we now call STEM career paths? How much of a stepping stone for ideas and tech that weren't even directly related to space travel resulted?

Sitting here stagnating just guarantees we'll be left behind by societies that don't. Humans are built to explore, and America can either lead or follow.

My points are missed and that's ok. I'm usually in the minority with arguments like these.

Like they would have solved any of those questions without a goal. None of it would have been done without the focus to accomplish something specific and solve all the problems in between.

Throwing money at people and telling them to go make stuff is a good way to get really expensive nothing.

I would have been OK with not wasting the money/resources at all.

So was sailing west for several centuries.

Comparing exploring the planet to exploring space? Are we entering space for search of other civilizations to trade with or to spread religion? Are we looking for new resources? We can determine the makeup of other planets by simple spectroscopy. No need to enter space. You have unlimited air on a sea faring ship (unless you fall in), you can catch food and you can stop at islands/cities/whatever. You don't need escape rockets with insane quantities of fuel, isolation from cosmic radiation, etc. If your ship sunk, you could at least swim. There is no air in space, no food or water to be found. Aside from keeping yourself alive, the vastness of space is nothing compared to our oceans. There is absolutely no comparison.

I also don't know why I'm arguing on INGO about this. I suppose I just can't help myself.

 

[rhino]

My points are missed and that's ok. I'm usually in the minority with arguments like these.

Pretty sure your points aren't being missed. People just aren't acknowledging them or agreeing with them. Perhaps you're equating a failure to agree with failure to comprehend because you assume that if we understood your point, we'd have no choice but to agree with you?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Comparing exploring the planet to exploring space? Are we entering space for search of other civilizations to trade with or to spread religion? Are we looking for new resources? We can determine the makeup of other planets by simple spectroscopy. No need to enter space. You have unlimited air on a sea faring ship (unless you fall in), you can catch food and you can stop at islands/cities/whatever. You don't need escape rockets with insane quantities of fuel, isolation from cosmic radiation, etc. If your ship sunk, you could at least swim. There is no air in space, no food or water to be found. Aside from keeping yourself alive, the vastness of space is nothing compared to our oceans. There is absolutely no comparison.

I also don't know why I'm arguing on INGO about this. I suppose I just can't help myself.

You might want to read up a bit on pre and immediately post-Columbus sea travel and exploration. It was incredibly expensive, so much so that only governments originally had the resources to do it. It also lead directly to what we consider a modern corporation, pools of investors funding sea travel and colonies. Death rates far exceeded the space program, obviously in real numbers but even percentage wise it's not even a close contest. What islands/cities/whatever were they stopping at on wooden sail boats crossing the Atlantic? Swim for it? Come on, you can't remotely be serious here.

Apollo got to the Moon in about 1/20th the time it took Columbus to sail to the US. The Atlantic isn't "vast" now because of technology and the desire to explore, travel, and exploit. Remember why Columbus sailed? It wasn't to find a new civilization, spread religion, or for resources. It was to find a faster trade route to Asia, which at the time was the dominant economic powerhouse of the world, and Spain funded it so they could control that new market access, gaining advantage over the other European nations.

Resources? Yes. Peering at them from Earth doesn't get us there. HE3 has the potential to radically change how we make energy both "at home" and on the Moon, but the technology isn't there yet. It would require a long term presence on the Moon, mining technology, and reactors.

India Will Send a Rover to the Moon In October to Look for Helium-3 | Fortune

What's the world look like if India and China control a vast new energy source? What's America's place in that world?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I wonder how many children it inspired to go into what we now call STEM career paths? How much of a stepping stone for ideas and tech that weren't even directly related to space travel resulted?

Sitting here stagnating just guarantees we'll be left behind by societies that don't. Humans are built to explore, and America can either lead or follow.

I can't speak for all of them but I can say I was one of them.

 

[Vigilant]

**** yeah! FINALLY, my time as a Space Shuttle Door Gunner can be recognized!!!!!

 

[Thor]

I would have been OK with not wasting the money/resources at all.

That you consider what was accomplished a waste seems to indicate you are okay with navel staring and the extinction of the human race. But you are entitled to your opinion. Twitter awaits.

As an American I'd prefer we be ahead of the rest of the world, as a human I'd prefer to be able to survive in the universe. Ignoring it all is probably not a long term survivable option.

 

[Kutnupe14]

That you consider what was accomplished a waste seems to indicate you are okay with navel staring and the extinction of the human race. But you are entitled to your opinion. Twitter awaits.

As an American I'd prefer we be ahead of the rest of the world, as a human I'd prefer to be able to survive in the universe. Ignoring it all is probably not a long term survivable option.

Well, so far as surviving the universe, assuming we don't eradicate ourselves, or some ELE occurs, we have quite the while to get it right.... as in like millions and millions of years.

 

[Thor]

Well, so far as surviving the universe, assuming we don't eradicate ourselves, or some ELE occurs, we have quite the while to get it right.... as in like millions and millions of years.

So...we should wait? Leave to future generations until there won't be any more? Wait on the come because it couldn't happen to us? Sounds really lazy to me; like folks don't just want to do the work.

 

[Kutnupe14]

So...we should wait? Leave to future generations until there won't be any more? Wait on the come because it couldn't happen to us? Sounds really lazy to me; like folks don't just want to do the work.

I think not wanting to pay the money is more accurate. I think that the private sector, given all the money to be made from space, will easily surpass government in terms of trailblazing.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I think not wanting to pay the money is more accurate. I think that the private sector, given all the money to be made from space, will easily surpass government in terms of trailblazing.

Other than gov't funding and launching satellites, what's the money to be made in space short term enough that private sector is viable? Launching satellites doesn't get us away from Earth.

Should we privatize the Navy because of all the money to be made from the oceans?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Other than gov't funding and launching satellites, what's the money to be made in space short term enough that private sector is viable? Launching satellites doesn't get us away from Earth.

Should we privatize the Navy because of all the money to be made from the oceans?

precious metals and gem stones in incredible quantities. The problem is that, in space, there is no prospector rights. Anything you bring (say if you are towing an astroid) you'd potentially be mined by other businesses. You're going to need to be able to mine onsite, and then return. I have no doubt that someone is trying to figure out how to do this, as we speak.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

precious metals and gem stones in incredible quantities. The problem is that, in space, there is no prospector rights. Anything you bring (say if you are towing an astroid) you'd potentially be mined by other businesses. You're going to need to be able to mine onsite, and then return. I have no doubt that someone is trying to figure out how to do this, as we speak.

It'd have to be super incredible. Space-X says costs to launch their satellite taxi rockets are $62 million to $90 million. That's a puddle jump compared to space mining. I don't see the private sector having the cash burn and long term interest to realistically mine space rocks. Just getting to Mars and doing nothing but tourism is estimated at about half a trillion. Even something pricey as plutonium would require over a quarter million pounds returned to Earth before the break even point even if we assume mining is free and instant, which of course it isn't.

Realistically, it's going to cost trillions of dollars to mine anything other than the moon, and HE3 is the only thing of potential value there and the tech to use it isn't available. I strongly suspect this will be Columbian travel again. Governments will fund the early stages until economic and technological viability are there, then private industry will begin to reap the rewards.

 

[Thor]

Pence and Mattis currently giving a briefing on standing up the Space Force. When established will have a seat on the JCS. "To defend America's interests in the vast expanses of Space."

 

[Mikey1911]

Pence and Mattis currently giving a briefing on standing up the Space Force. When established will have a seat on the JCS. "To defend America's interests in the vast expanses of Space."

And thus, Starfleet was born—
“To Boldly Go Where No (whatever) Has Gone Before”

 

[HoughMade]

Not sure we need this but who knows.

Succinct.

 

[Thor]

Official Announcement:

WASHINGTON, Aug. 9, 2018 — The Defense Department will establish a sixth branch of the armed forces, the U.S. Department of the Space Force, by 2020, Vice President Mike Pence announced today.
In a speech at the Pentagon, the vice president also announced plans to establish a new combatant command -- U.S. Space Command -- as well as a Space Operations Force and a new joint organization called the Space Development Agency.
The announcement follows a seven-week review by DoD, directed by President Donald J. Trump, of “the process necessary to establish a space force as the sixth branch of the armed forces.”
A report outlining the results of the study will be released later today.
“In his inaugural address to the nation, President Trump declared that the United States stands ‘at the birth of a new millennium, ready to unlock the mysteries of space,’” Pence said.
Space Force
Just as advances in aviation technology drove the emergence of air as a new battlefield in the 20th century, advances in space technology have made it clear that space is the new battlefield for the 21st century, the vice president said. The U.S. will meet the emerging threats on this new battlefield, he said, and carry on the cause of liberty and peace into the next great frontier.
“The time has come to establish the United States Space Force,” Pence said.
The new branch will be separate from, but equal to, the five other branches, he said.
“To be clear: the Space Force will not be built from scratch, because the men and women who run and protect our nation’s space programs today are already the best in the world,” the vice president said.
“Across this department and our intelligence agencies, there are literally tens of thousands of military personnel, civilians and contractors operating and supporting our space systems -- and together, they are the eyes and ears of America’s warfighters around the globe,” Pence said.
Peace Through Strength
Actions by U.S. adversaries make it clear that space is already a warfighting domain, the vice president said.
“For many years, nations from Russia and China to North Korea and Iran have pursued weapons to jam, blind and disable our navigation and communications satellites via electronic attacks from the ground,” Pence said. “But recently, our adversaries have been working to bring new weapons of war into space itself.”
In 2007, China launched a missile that tracked and destroyed one of its own satellites, the vice president said. And Russia is working on an airborne laser to disrupt space-based systems, he added.
“Both nations are also investing heavily in what are known as hypersonic missiles designed to fly up to 5 miles per second at such low altitudes that they could potentially evade detection by our missile defense radars,” Pence said. “In fact, China claimed to have made its first successful test of a hypersonic vehicle just last week.”
In every domain, America will always seek peace, the vice president said. “But history proves that peace only comes through strength,” he added. “And in the realm of outer space, the United States Space Force will be that strength.”
Action Steps
The report to be released today represents a critical step toward establishing the Space Force, he said. It identifies several actions that DoD will take as the nation evolves its space capabilities, “and they are built on the lessons of the past,” Pence said.
First, the report calls for the creation of the U.S. Space Command, a new unified combatant command for space. “This new command … will establish unified command and control for our Space Force operations, ensure integration across the military, and develop the space warfighting doctrine, tactics, techniques, and procedures of the future,” he said.
Second, the report calls for the establishment of a Space Operations Force -- an elite group of joint warfighters, specializing in the domain of space, who will form the backbone of the nation’s newest armed service. This force will draw from across the military to provide space expertise in times of crisis and conflict, Pence said.
“Third, the report calls for a new joint organization -- the Space Development Agency -- that will ensure the men and women of the Space Force have the cutting-edge warfighting capabilities that they need and deserve,” he said.
Finally, the report calls for clear lines of responsibility and accountability to manage the process of establishing and growing the Space Force, including the appointment of an assistant secretary of defense for space, the vice president said.
“Creating a new branch of the military is not a simple process,” Pence noted. “It will require collaboration, diligence and, above all, leadership. As challenges arise and deadlines approach, there must be someone in charge who can execute, hold others accountable, and be responsible for the results.”
Ultimately, Congress must establish the new department, the vice president said. “Next February, in the president’s budget, we will call on the Congress to marshal the resources we need to stand up the Space Force, and before the end of next year, our administration will work with the congress to enact the statutory authority for the space force in the National Defense Authorization Act,” he said.

 

[Thor]

The House Armed Services Committee immediately came out with a message supporting this:

[FONT=&quot]REPS ROGERS AND COOPER ON SPACE FORCE REPORT[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Washington, D.C. –[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Rep. Mike Rogers (R-AL) and Rep. Jim Cooper (D-TN), respectively Chairman and Ranking Member of the House Armed Services Subcommittee on Strategic Forces, commented today on the latest steps in advancing America’s national security in space following the release of DoD’s report on Organizational Management Structure for the National Security Space Components of the Department of Defense. The report was required in the National Defense Authorization Act for FY18. Reps. Rogers and Cooper said: [FONT=&quot]“We have been warning for years of the need to protect our space assets and to develop more capable space systems. We are glad that the Pentagon is finally taking these steps in enhancing our space strength. This new report was required by last year’s NDAA legislation and will be helpful in speeding up acquisitions of more advanced systems, as well as giving our space professionals more clout. This report is a step in a multi-year process that we think will result in a safer, stronger America. We particularly appreciate Deputy Secretary Shanahan’s leadership on these issues and look forward to the establishment of a much-needed independent Space Force, as called for by President Trump.”[/FONT] [/FONT]

 

[indiucky]

 

[JeepHammer]

Is anyone else bothered by the fact weapons in space are illegal by international treaty?

Is anyone else bothered by the fact the US Air Force has a space division?
And civilian non-military space division exists, it's called NASA...

Does anyone remember the last very old actor turned president nearly bankrupted the country believing the movie 'Star Wars' was real?