UAW On Strike

[churchmouse]

Part of it comes from unemployment. The other part comes from our paycheck. Instead of making X per hour, we make Y, with the additional going into a "rainy day" fund. They claim it's 95%, but I'd love to see their math because it's closer to 65%.

The days of drawing for five years are gone, there's a limit on sub pay. The most you can get is 39 weeks of sub pay.

OK that has changed then.
I am still not sure what the deal was at the Chevy plant.

 

[Rookie]

Another thing that is conveniently ignored is that the company agreed to indefinite sub pay. I'm sure they never imagined paying indefinitely, but they agreed to it and had to honor the contract. As soon as they could, they negotiated time limits. So, how is it the union worker's fault that the companies didn't plan ahead?

As for the New Castle example, again, the company agreed that they would place the worker in his labor market and that worker couldn't be forced outside of his labor market. They didn't think of the possibility that the labor market would disappear like it did in New Castle. As soon as they could, they negotiated language to allow them to force someone outside their labor market. Again, how does it become the union worker's fault that the company agreed to something without looking at worst case scenario?

 

[hoosierdoc]

Who is blaming union workers for something?

 

[Rookie]

Seems like most of this thread is about the evils of being in a union or being a union worker.

I'll ask you, who should be blamed for not planning ahead and then being forced to honor the agreement?

 

[KokomoDave]

Profits before honoring a contract.

 

[ATOMonkey]

It never ceases to amaze me how short sighted organizations are.

I've been working in the industrialized part of Indy for 16 years. I've watched them shutter Olin Brass, Chrysler Transmission, GM sheet metal and the Navistar Foundry/assembly plant. The RCA plant used to employ over 50,000 people (closed in 1995). They all had one thing in common. Union labor. Every time there has a been a strike the company has pulled up stakes and moved out.

I'll give you one guess as to what is going to happen this time...

I'll also give you some "inside baseball" Because of the way Federal labor laws are written, companies can't just move production in order to avoid a Union. Now, if the Union goes on strike and an agreement can't be reached on a new contract... Well, there was nothing that could be done about that. Then they build a new factory in a right to work state, since the old factory was probably falling down around their ears anyway.

It happens over and over and over again, and people still act surprised every time. Weirdest damn thing...

I appreciate what Unions did for the coal miners and textile factory workers. What they accomplished changed labor laws and shifted society. The purpose they served no longer exists, and the market is bearing that out.

 

[Rookie]

Who is blaming union workers for something?

Or laid off in some cases.

The Chevy transmission plant I did a lot of work for and eventually helped shut down had an area in the cafeteria that maybe 100 people had to report to and sit for 8 hours to get the 90% pay. 1st I had seen of that but if they needed anyone on the assembly line they pulled them out of that group. Everyday I was there the same faces were sitting in the lunch area reading. No real cell thing going on then but that was their jobs so to speak. When the plant finally closed that came to an end. Pathetic.

.

 

[Rookie]

I'll give some more behind the scenes...

Part time workers are scheduled in our plant every day to cover casual absences. Once those slots are filled, management is supposed to send the excess people home. They never do. Instead, they have them do meaningless jobs that do nothing to help profitability. Why? In our plant, it actually does take some skill to keep a machine running. Management doesn't want to hire someone, train them, send them home, find out they got another job, and have to train someone new. Instead, they would rather pay someone to walk around wiping down panels with wet wipes.

Another one is relief. By contract, we are allowed two 12 minute breaks and one 15 minute lunch. When I hired in 20 years ago, one relief guy covered 5 people. Now, management uses relief people to cover no more than three and sometimes they will have multiple relief guys covering one person each. Why? Who knows.

Last one. When I first hired in, one operator ran two automatic machines and relieved another operator that was running two automatic machines. During break, one operator was responsible for four machines. Now, there is one operator per machine with relief. Why? Because the Industrial Engineer decided that is the way it should be. Btw, Industrial Engineers are on the management side.

 

[ATOMonkey]

I'll give some more behind the scenes...

Part time workers are scheduled in our plant every day to cover casual absences. Once those slots are filled, management is supposed to send the excess people home. They never do. Instead, they have them do meaningless jobs that do nothing to help profitability. Why? In our plant, it actually does take some skill to keep a machine running. Management doesn't want to hire someone, train them, send them home, find out they got another job, and have to train someone new. Instead, they would rather pay someone to walk around wiping down panels with wet wipes.

Another one is relief. By contract, we are allowed two 12 minute breaks and one 15 minute lunch. When I hired in 20 years ago, one relief guy covered 5 people. Now, management uses relief people to cover no more than three and sometimes they will have multiple relief guys covering one person each. Why? Who knows.

Last one. When I first hired in, one operator ran two automatic machines and relieved another operator that was running two automatic machines. During break, one operator was responsible for four machines. Now, there is one operator per machine with relief. Why? Because the Industrial Engineer decided that is the way it should be. Btw, Industrial Engineers are on the management side.

I bet the contract stipulates that an operator can only run one machine for safety reasons. It's in our UAW contract.

If you want to start telling war stories, I've got some Doozies! They're not terribly complimentary to the UAW though...

 

[Rookie]

I'll bet you're wrong.

I'm not a fan of a majority of what the union stands for and does. In my twenty plus years, I can count on one hand the amount of union meetings I've gone to and three of them were contract related. Personally, I hate the worthless workers we have. I gave up a job I enjoyed because I was sick of dealing with them. However, I understand why they are represented - the union has to. Since they are paying for representation, the union has to fight for them. Unfortunately, that leaves the guy on the floor dealing with the worthless piece of ****.

 

[Trigger Time]

GM has been screwing over their workers and retirees for more than a decade now. Cutting healthcare, raising it, messing with pensions.
GM is a dirty company. In the same token UAW let it all happen.
Im glad they are taking a stand. I have no skin in the game myself but my father retired from GM after over 30 some years of loyal service in skilled trades, afew years after coming home from vietnam like many other vets. One guy he worked with and became friends with fought at and was wounded in the battle of the bulge in WWII. He also retired from GM. They used to take good care of veterans.
GM has changed so much from what it used to be and stand for. Now its just another company that sells out to the lowest bidder and has no national pride until they want to make a commercial for a football game on sunday. Just posers. Not the heartbeat of America anymore.
Back when I was growing up GM paid their skilled workers way more than competitors. Overtime was as much as you wanted (i know because I rarely saw my dad. Work was everything to him).
I kinda still feel part of the GM family but more to the workers and not the company. Growing up the company was always the necessary evil. Kinda like our government.

 

[churchmouse]

Seems like most of this thread is about the evils of being in a union or being a union worker.

I'll ask you, who should be blamed for not planning ahead and then being forced to honor the agreement?

"NO" but in this a lot of these people have a pretty crappy attitude and thats what prompted me to respond. Get what you can but do not be a snark about it.
Not you man but sooooooo many of the encounters I have had to endure. Just the union mindset. Again I have some solid friends and acquaintances that are UAW/teamsters/fitters and NBEW but have seen a lot of crappy entitlement attitudes as well.

I really just agree with Hookeye. But to be a UNION guy means taking on a hive mind mentality. Unless you can deal with the grief that goes with not being as one. I have lived it. Loved the money/benny's but never was one of the "Guys"

 

[churchmouse]

It never ceases to amaze me how short sighted organizations are.

I've been working in the industrialized part of Indy for 16 years. I've watched them shutter Olin Brass, Chrysler Transmission, GM sheet metal and the Navistar Foundry/assembly plant. The RCA plant used to employ over 50,000 people (closed in 1995). They all had one thing in common. Union labor. Every time there has a been a strike the company has pulled up stakes and moved out.

I'll give you one guess as to what is going to happen this time...

I'll also give you some "inside baseball" Because of the way Federal labor laws are written, companies can't just move production in order to avoid a Union. Now, if the Union goes on strike and an agreement can't be reached on a new contract... Well, there was nothing that could be done about that. Then they build a new factory in a right to work state, since the old factory was probably falling down around their ears anyway.

It happens over and over and over again, and people still act surprised every time. Weirdest damn thing...

I appreciate what Unions did for the coal miners and textile factory workers. What they accomplished changed labor laws and shifted society. The purpose they served no longer exists, and the market is bearing that out.

Take a good solid look at the town of Connersville.

 

[ATOMonkey]

GM has been screwing over their workers and retirees for more than a decade now. Cutting healthcare, raising it, messing with pensions.
GM is a dirty company. In the same token UAW let it all happen.
Im glad they are taking a stand. I have no skin in the game myself but my father retired from GM after over 30 some years of loyal service in skilled trades, afew years after coming home from vietnam like many other vets. One guy he worked with and became friends with fought at and was wounded in the battle of the bulge in WWII. He also retired from GM. They used to take good care of veterans.
GM has changed so much from what it used to be and stand for. Now its just another company that sells out to the lowest bidder and has no national pride until they want to make a commercial for a football game on sunday. Just posers. Not the heartbeat of America anymore.
Back when I was growing up GM paid their skilled workers way more than competitors. Overtime was as much as you wanted (i know because I rarely saw my dad. Work was everything to him).
I kinda still feel part of the GM family but more to the workers and not the company. Growing up the company was always the necessary evil. Kinda like our government.

Back then, you had 10 workers supporting each retiree. Now you have 2 workers supporting each retiree. Legacy costs are THE biggest reason companies are doing their best to divest themselves of organized labor.

Our labor costs, including legacy and overhead, were over $300/hr. The machine shop down the street charges $150/hr for machine time, PLUS, if they screw up the parts, they eat the cost.

What am I supposed to do with that math?

 

[Big Flounder]

The price of a new car.

Of the price of a new vehicle, labor costs are under 10% of it. I believe it's around 6% but would have to look it up and verify it. I agree the prices of new vehicles are going through the roof but so is the price of a house, land, groceries, etc. I sometimes think I'm just getting old. Lol!

 

[ATOMonkey]

If you want to talk about loyal GM guys getting the shaft, I've got an anecdote for you as well.

My wife's grandfather was a WWII vet, retired from GM. When good old Barry oversaw the divestiture of General Motors, guess what happened to all the stock that this man's widow owned? Did the UAW take the hit when GM went bankrupt and Barry made "New GM"? Nope. Did all the retired share holders? Yep. My family now owns hundreds of stocks in "Old GM" which are completely worthless. Did the UAW show up to help out a veteran's widow? Nope.

So, it's not just "management" that is screwing people over. The UAW does a pretty good job of that as well.

 

[Rookie]

"NO" but in this a lot of these people have a pretty crappy attitude and thats what prompted me to respond. Get what you can but do not be a snark about it.
Not you man but sooooooo many of the encounters I have had to endure. Just the union mindset. Again I have some solid friends and acquaintances that are UAW/teamsters/fitters and NBEW but have seen a lot of crappy entitlement attitudes as well.

I really just agree with Hookeye. But to be a UNION guy means taking on a hive mind mentality. Unless you can deal with the grief that goes with not being as one. I have lived it. Loved the money/benny's but never was one of the "Guys"

I can understand why police officers on this site respond the way they do when they are lumped in with the trouble makers. I've tried not to be snarky, but it is difficult when people make assumptions and then make stupid statements. I don't know how many times I read, "consider the source" or "we don't know the whole story" but that doesn't happen when it comes to those lazy union workers.

For example, I used to have a job that would take me three hours to finish. The rest of my eight hour shift, I would play cards, watch movies, sleep, whatever. Without knowing the whole story, it's easy to think "what a lazy, good for nothing union worker", but I'll give the Paul Harvey. In that three hours, each person moved over 30 tons of product by hand. OSHA has limits on how much can be moved per hour, but we could move 2-3 times the amount per hour. Management didn't complain because they could put another line out. Now, that job has been replaced by robots that can't do in eight hours what we could do in two. Why go to robots if the worker was more efficient? Everyone who worked that job has some kind of permanent injury. Robots are cheaper.

 

[churchmouse]

Of the price of a new vehicle, labor costs are under 10% of it. I believe it's around 6% but would have to look it up and verify it. I agree the prices of new vehicles are going through the roof but so is the price of a house, land, groceries, etc. I sometimes think I'm just getting old. Lol!

There are many factors that go into the cost of a new car/truck. EPA mandates. CAFE standards and regulations. Safety (I have zero issues with the safety aspects) R$D to achieve these unrealistic demands. Now add in the legacy costs. I heard some numbers but will not post them as I have zero ability to verify them but they are eye opening. The 90% thing. All of this adds up over the costs of making a car/truck.
That the big 3 are struggling is no surprise but are they really.

Plants closing and moving off shore or down south are not just due to Unions but that can be the straw that breaks it. EPA/OSHA/Taxes have a huge impact on these decisions. "HUGE"....I have seen this a few times here in Indy.

 

[Rookie]

If you want to talk about loyal GM guys getting the shaft, I've got an anecdote for you as well.

My wife's grandfather was a WWII vet, retired from GM. When good old Barry oversaw the divestiture of General Motors, guess what happened to all the stock that this man's widow owned? Did the UAW take the hit when GM went bankrupt and Barry made "New GM"? Nope. Did all the retired share holders? Yep. My family now owns hundreds of stocks in "Old GM" which are completely worthless. Did the UAW show up to help out a veteran's widow? Nope.

So, it's not just "management" that is screwing people over. The UAW does a pretty good job of that as well.

Yes, they certainly do. My father in law watched his pension get cut in half and there was nothing he could do about it. I've said since day one that my "pension" will be nothing but play money.

 

[churchmouse]

If you want to talk about loyal GM guys getting the shaft, I've got an anecdote for you as well.

My wife's grandfather was a WWII vet, retired from GM. When good old Barry oversaw the divestiture of General Motors, guess what happened to all the stock that this man's widow owned? Did the UAW take the hit when GM went bankrupt and Barry made "New GM"? Nope. Did all the retired share holders? Yep. My family now owns hundreds of stocks in "Old GM" which are completely worthless. Did the UAW show up to help out a veteran's widow? Nope.

So, it's not just "management" that is screwing people over. The UAW does a pretty good job of that as well.

Lets put some of this on "Old Barry" OK. That POS was the anti Christ walking the earth.

But yes, that entire thing sucked but how much of it as by design.