Under 5 seconds

[jakemartens]

That is helpful I think. The other videos were great for the basic grip, but I've known that for years, and still have recoil issues when it comes to rapid fire or double taps (second shot is off by 6" for example). I'm well aware that the trick is in canting the support hand forward and locking it, but just haven't had any success with that yet. Maybe its because my hands are so big, but when I cant my left wrist forward it leaves an air pocket, which negates the benefit, so I'll keep working at it. This video gave some very specific guidance in that area, and we all know the devil is in the tiniest of details.

6 inches off which way?
up, down, right, left or all of the above

if it is all of the above it is your grip
if it is consistently 6 inches higher then you are firing the second shot in recoil before the sights have returned
if it is consistently 6 inches low then you are reacting to the first shot and flinching or pushing the gun forward and dipping it

Grip is just part of the the equation in being able to shoot fast and accurate, stance, trigger control and tracking you sights are the other key elements

It is live fire drills, and it is
-getting the right grip
-getting the right stance for you
-learning how to track your sights
-seeing what you need to see to break the shot

dry fire will get you used to the grip and stance
live fire is how you do the rest of it

 

[Coach]

6 inches off which way?
up, down, right, left or all of the above

if it is all of the above it is your grip
if it is consistently 6 inches higher then you are firing the second shot in recoil before the sights have returned
if it is consistently 6 inches low then you are reacting to the first shot and flinching or pushing the gun forward and dipping it

Grip is just part of the the equation in being able to shoot fast and accurate, stance, trigger control and tracking you sights are the other key elements

It is live fire drills, and it is
-getting the right grip
-getting the right stance for you
-learning how to track your sights
-seeing what you need to see to break the shot

dry fire will get you used to the grip and stance
live fire is how you do the rest of it

That sounds like practice, and I thought that wasn't necessary?

 

[jakemartens]

That sounds like practice, and I thought that wasn't necessary?

It isn't

 

[riverman67]

HA!
Practice isn't necessary,unless you want to get better.
It is much easier and less time consuming to just embrace your current abilities,shoot matches and have a lot of fun.
That is what I did this year, my work schedule dictated it.
I am going to make an effort toward some sort of regular practice routine next year.

 

[rhino]

For the record, I have never suggested or stated that practice is not necessary. I just say it's cheating.

And sometimes cheating is the way to go.

There, I said it.

 

[netsecurity]

Question ... is it normal to get light primer strikes during rapid fire if your timing is off (firing second shot during recoil)? I think maybe I am causing this by the barrel falling forward simultaneously to the firing pin moving forward, and perhaps negating its momentum. Is this perhaps more common with hammer fired pistols, since they require the hammer to smack the firing pin forward, instead of the striker spring pushing it? Or should it absolutely not matter what I do, and my gun should fire every time???

I've been working under the assumption that it was the gun's fault, but I've replaced most of the guts, and am stull having issues. I just ordered the last two parts that I think could be responsible--the actual firing pin itself, and the recoil spring. I would have never suspected the recoil spring, but I started thinking about the forward momentum, and that maybe the slide was hanging back too long, thereby messing up my timing (pulling the trigger before slide is in battery).

Am I way off here, and just having a weird gun issue, or have I stumbled on to something that is common problem amongst people new to rapid fire? Is it just my technique, sort of like "limp wristing" is to FTF?

 

[rvb]

You aren't out-running the gun.

Reloads? make sure those primers are seated. Need a stronger hammer spring? 1911? Extended firing pin might help.

Primers getting solid hits hits or no/light hits?

Hard to guess not knowing anything about your gun/ammo.

could it be hammer follow (you're actually pulling a dead trigger on your follow up shot)? I have a 45 w. A touch too much secondary sear angle and while I never seem to do it in practice, I can occasionally in a match grip so firm the hammer follows (even though it passes the dropping the slide on the empty chamber test).

-rvb

 

[netsecurity]

You aren't out-running the gun.

Reloads? make sure those primers are seated. Need a stronger hammer spring? 1911? Extended firing pin might help.

Primers getting solid hits hits or no/light hits?

Hard to guess not knowing anything about your gun/ammo.

could it be hammer follow (you're actually pulling a dead trigger on your follow up shot)? I have a 45 w. A touch too much secondary sear angle and while I never seem to do it in practice, I can occasionally in a match grip so firm the hammer follows (even though it passes the dropping the slide on the empty chamber test).

-rvb

It is a Sig P239, single stack 9mm. The primers have deep indentations, and fire correctly on second strike. At first I thought it was just my reloads, but it happens with factory ammo to. So far though, I think it only happens during rapid fire, and never on the first shot.

I've already replaced the hammer spring and cleaned the FP channel, and even replaced the FP spring for good measure. Then I installed the Short Reset Trigger kit (not for this problem, but now half the internals are brand new). All parts were degreased and coated in Remington Dry Lube, so there is definitely no gunk. In short, the gun has been almost entirely refurbished, and should be better than new, and that's why I got to thinking it could be more of a technique thing.

I figure a heavier recoil spring will help with my technique by getting the slide back into battery quicker. And if my firing pin is just worn down, then the new one will finally fix everything. But I'm not confident the problem is isolated to this one gun, since it is the only one I've been rapid firing--it could be my fault!

 

[rvb]

Ive never seen anyone outrun the cycle speed of a pistol. I've even done < .15 splits w/ a highpoint.

what is "rapid firing?" ... what are your splits?

Do the primer hits look any different between the ones that fired and the ones that didn't (off center, less deep, etc)? (when you say second strike, are you removing the round and examining before re-firing it, or just pulling the trigger again?)

Happen more w/ a full mag vs near-empty mag?

how firm is your grip? Have you experimented w/ holding loose through squeezing the oil out of the gun?

thumb / hand riding the slide?

fully reseting the trigger, reseting all the internal safeties? Sigs are one of the few guns I've ever short-stroked the trigger on (226/220s, never shot a 239).

-rvb

 

[BillD]

Jerry can run splits around .10. He doesn't outrun the gun.