Undocumented hit-and-run driver released...

[DoggyDaddy]

How exactly does one become "documented"? Does that mean work visa or becoming a citizen or paying taxes?

I would say work visa, green card or citizenship.

 

[KMaC]

You think that state governments should hold people based on federal law violations, even after the feds are aware but haven't taken action? Now think about that for a moment, and how much of a headache that would be.

I have no idea how you got that from my statement.

 

[Fargo]

I don't doubt that that's the case (Feds screwed up) and that the judge may have been following protocol, but my feeling is that the protocol is just flat out flawed. As far as the bond schedule goes, how does a judge determine that a defendant is a flight risk and deny bond? Because that happens at least occasionally, right? Or are you saying that in Marion County, it cannot happen because of the schedule? If the latter, I guess that wouldn't surprise me, given Marion County's revolving door policies.

I don’t normally practice in Marion County, but my understanding of the current system there is that there is a bond schedule which takes into account a number of factors, such as whether or not the person is on some sort of supervision, and bond is set based on that.

The prosecutors office can file a request for a higher than standard bond based upon a number of factors laid out in the bond statute, These requests normally result in a hearing being held where a judge determines whether the bond should be raised.

There are also cases where the prosecutors office can request that a person can be held no bond, but they are very limited because Indiana’s constitution explicitly provides for a right to bond.

At the end of the day, Marion County simply has no jail capacity to hold nearly the number of people that many people would like held. The feds, who are supposed to be enforcing immigration law, have had a long-standing practice of ignoring the federal warrant requirement and instead doing informal detainers in cases where the statute does not allow them. This resulted in a federal judge ordering the Marion County sheriffs department to not honor ICE detainers unless the Federal statute is actually complied with.

Rather than comply with the statute, ICE apparently now just wants to whine.

 

[churchmouse]

You think that state governments should hold people based on federal law violations, even after the feds are aware but haven't taken action? Now think about that for a moment, and how much of a headache that would be.

Screw the headaches. That is what they are there for. Hold these people and make them accountable. Period. Do what has to be done all the way through the system from the suits in the capitol building all the way to the street. Lets get rolling people.
Apparently I was wrong in my assessment we do not need any more laws when we can not hold a hit/run illegal with a flight risk. WTF people. This is insane.

 

[Fargo]

Screw the headaches. That is what they are there for. Hold these people and make them accountable. Period. Do what has to be done all the way through the system from the suits in the capitol building all the way to the street. Lets get rolling people.
Apparently I was wrong in my assessment we do not need any more laws when we can not hold a hit/run illegal with a flight risk. WTF people. This is insane.

They can be held with no bond, federal immigration law explicitly provides for this. The feds just chose not to. The constitution explicitly makes immigration a federal matter, it's not something left to the states.

It is sometimes possible to do it within the state system, but much more difficult because Indiana has the constitutional right to bond.

This is not a matter of laws, we have a ton of immigration law that is simply not enforced. Its more a matter of whether or not the Feds have any interest in actually enforcing immigration law and following the statutes that provide how to do so.

 

[KMaC]

They can be held with no bond, federal immigration law explicitly provides for this. The feds just chose not to. The constitution explicitly makes immigration a federal matter, it's not something left to the states.

It is sometimes possible to do it within the state system, but much more difficult because Indiana has the constitutional right to bond.

This is not a matter of laws, it's a matter of whether or not the Feds have any interest in actually enforcing immigration law and following the statutes that provide how to do so.

I'm still confused. Isn't being a flight risk based on an illegal immigration status a basis for setting a high bond (ignoring denying bond as a constitutional right)?

 

[Fargo]

I'm still confused. Isn't being a flight risk based on an illegal immigration status a basis for setting a high bond (ignoring denying bond as a constitutional right)?

Off the top of my head, the prosecutors office would have to prove by clear and convincing evidence that the person is a flight risk and or a danger to the community. This isn't something that can just magically happen without process. Most of the time a contested hearing is involved before a bond is altered.

I would think that immigration status would be relevant, but only if you can prove what their status is. Absent an admission by the person, I don't know of any mechanism by which a state prosecutor could readily access that information in a way that it could be admitted into court.

That is why the federal immigration process provides for no bond detainment of illegals based upon PC as long as the statute is followed. Despite being slapped around by several federal courts, for reasons that are unclear ICE still does not appear to want to actually follow the procedure laid out in the statute.

 

[KMaC]

Thanks for clarifying the issue.

 

[Fargo]

Thanks for clarifying the issue.

If I were to guess, assuming that it is true that she does not live at the address she provided, the Marion County prosecutors office probably will move to revoke or alter her bond. She may also face additional forgery etc. charges for falsifying her bond paperwork. I would guess that metro is looking into it as we speak.

 

[Alamo]

I reeditd based on Fargo's explanation

 

[Fargo]

Edit of your edit! LOL

 

[Alamo]

It usually takes a couple whacks at it, especially since there seem to be numerous errors and awkwardisms that only show up in "post" versus "preview." So typically "editing of the editing" is in play.

 

[Fargo]

It usually takes a couple whacks at it, especially since there seem to be numerous errors and awkwardisms that only show up in "post" versus "preview." So typically "editing of the editing" is in play.

That's funny, I do the exact same thing.

 

[churchmouse]

If I were to guess, assuming that it is true that she does not live at the address she provided, the Marion County prosecutors office probably will move to revoke or alter her bond. She may also face additional forgery etc. charges for falsifying her bond paperwork. I would guess that metro is looking into it as we speak.

OK but while they are jacking around she is in the wind. Bye Bye so to speak. That’s my beef. A citizen has the right to due process under the applicable laws. She is not a citizen and has lied/mislead from the get. Why is she afforded the same rights as a citizen when she is at best a criminal and a flight risk. This **** makes no sense to me. Given your much appreciated explanation it again points out how ridiculous this is.
Our over lords seem to be a large group is clowns.

I have 3 friends/family that have been hit by these undocumented people. 2 totaled and 1 severely damaged with medical all 3. The drunken non-driven asss hats all vanished in the wind.

 

[Ziggidy]

Interesting thoughts for certain. One comment was there is not enough space to hold these illegals. Another long discussion about bond, lack of and enforcing. All interesting, but all of them poor excuses; IMO.

Let's look at other countries and their illegal immigrant procedures. Seems to me, the stricter the laws, the less number of infractions. We have all heard the horror stories about people crossing over boarders and the consequences. The message often told, BE CAREFUL and do not go to Mexico (for example). You'll end up in some jail cell and rot there.

What happens? People normally do not go where they are not welcomed, where the immigration laws are strictly implemented and violators severely health with. Here, in the USA, we are so lenient. We welcome people, given them free education, free healthcare, free food. Violators are slapped on the wrist and in many cases, just let go (like this one). To prove this point, we have had a caravan of people traveling through Mexico to come here, why? In may states these illegals can get ID's, drivers license and VOTE.

Sad, simply sad.

I truly believe if we tighten our boarders, enforce our laws to the fullest and really make coming here illegally a CRIME, we may just see a decrease in violations and would have plenty of room in prisons for those who still think they can abuse our system.

When the ILLEGAL immigrant has more freedom from laws that our own citizens, we are no longer a country.

 

[KMaC]

I read several years ago that 25% of Center Township drivers didn't have insurance. I'm guessing that figure hasn't improved and the other townships are probably closing in on that percentage.

 

[Trigger Time]

Interesting thoughts for certain. One comment was there is not enough space to hold these illegals. Another long discussion about bond, lack of and enforcing. All interesting, but all of them poor excuses; IMO.

Let's look at other countries and their illegal immigrant procedures. Seems to me, the stricter the laws, the less number of infractions. We have all heard the horror stories about people crossing over boarders and the consequences. The message often told, BE CAREFUL and do not go to Mexico (for example). You'll end up in some jail cell and rot there.

What happens? People normally do not go where they are not welcomed, where the immigration laws are strictly implemented and violators severely health with. Here, in the USA, we are so lenient. We welcome people, given them free education, free healthcare, free food. Violators are slapped on the wrist and in many cases, just let go (like this one). To prove this point, we have had a caravan of people traveling through Mexico to come here, why? In may states these illegals can get ID's, drivers license and VOTE.

Sad, simply sad.

I truly believe if we tighten our boarders, enforce our laws to the fullest and really make coming here illegally a CRIME, we may just see a decrease in violations and would have plenty of room in prisons for those who still think they can abuse our system.

When the ILLEGAL immigrant has more freedom from laws that our own citizens, we are no longer a country.

It all has to do with strength or weakness. We are weak on everything in this country and our nation is suffering.
If you let your kids do anything they want and get their way then they will probably turn into ****bags of society and die early or end up in jail. If you discipline them and enforce rules the best you know how then the odds are more in their favor at growing up to be something or at least not being in jail. Like john Lennon said, a working class hero is something to be!

 

[churchmouse]

I read several years ago that 25% of Center Township drivers didn't have insurance. I'm guessing that figure hasn't improved and the other townships are probably closing in on that percentage.

Credentials of any kind.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I don’t normally practice in Marion County, but my understanding of the current system there is that there is a bond schedule which takes into account a number of factors, such as whether or not the person is on some sort of supervision, and bond is set based on that.

The prosecutors office can file a request for a higher than standard bond based upon a number of factors laid out in the bond statute, These requests normally result in a hearing being held where a judge determines whether the bond should be raised.

There are also cases where the prosecutors office can request that a person can be held no bond, but they are very limited because Indiana’s constitution explicitly provides for a right to bond.

At the end of the day, Marion County simply has no jail capacity to hold nearly the number of people that many people would like held. The feds, who are supposed to be enforcing immigration law, have had a long-standing practice of ignoring the federal warrant requirement and instead doing informal detainers in cases where the statute does not allow them. This resulted in a federal judge ordering the Marion County sheriffs department to not honor ICE detainers unless the Federal statute is actually complied with.

Rather than comply with the statute, ICE apparently now just wants to whine.

Off the top of my head, the prosecutors office would have to prove by clear and convincing evidence that the person is a flight risk and or a danger to the community. This isn't something that can just magically happen without process. Most of the time a contested hearing is involved before a bond is altered.

I would think that immigration status would be relevant, but only if you can prove what their status is. Absent an admission by the person, I don't know of any mechanism by which a state prosecutor could readily access that information in a way that it could be admitted into court.

That is why the federal immigration process provides for no bond detainment of illegals based upon PC as long as the statute is followed. Despite being slapped around by several federal courts, for reasons that are unclear ICE still does not appear to want to actually follow the procedure laid out in the statute.

Well, in addition to the lack of testicular fortitude from the feds, the highlighted parts also speak volumes. Expecting Terry Curry to do anything that might be unpleasant for criminals is a stretch. The man never met a criminal he didn't want to release.

 

[chipbennett]

If only Marion County were so quick to release their confiscated, unlawfully-held firearms that are the rightful property of law-abiding citizens.