Union Ownership

[dross]

I was a headhunter in the IT industry in the late 90s. The contractors we placed worked for anywhere from about $35 an hour to $150 an hour, with the average being about $75 or so. Since they all worked more than 40 hours a week, some made as much as 400K per year, but again, the average was probably somewhere around 150K.

At the time there was an explosion in computer science need generated by Y2K projects, and by a massive shift from mainframe computers to server based applications. Also, this was the period when every office was upgrading every couple of years.

As soon as Y2K was over, combined with a longer life cycle of hardware and software, everything changed in the IT industry. For one thing, my easy living as an IT headhunter got hard. For another, software folks who had been make 100K+ could now only command half of that, and many couldn't find jobs at all.

I guess they should have had a union.

 

[Doug]

I was a headhunter in the IT industry in the late 90s. The contractors we placed worked for anywhere from about $35 an hour to $150 an hour, with the average being about $75 or so. Since they all worked more than 40 hours a week, some made as much as 400K per year, but again, the average was probably somewhere around 150K.

At the time there was an explosion in computer science need generated by Y2K projects, and by a massive shift from mainframe computers to server based applications. Also, this was the period when every office was upgrading every couple of years.

As soon as Y2K was over, combined with a longer life cycle of hardware and software, everything changed in the IT industry. For one thing, my easy living as an IT headhunter got hard. For another, software folks who had been make 100K+ could now only command half of that, and many couldn't find jobs at all.

I guess they should have had a union.

I thought job security in the IT field was producing documentation that looked complete and contained nothing.

 

[Fletch]

I thought job security in the IT field was producing documentation that looked complete and contained nothing.

It depends on where you are in the revenue stream.

 

[dross]

I thought job security in the IT field was producing documentation that looked complete and contained nothing.

I don't really know about that - my experience was in exploiting them for 20% of their gross compensation. You can do that without documentation.

 

[Fletch]

I don't really know about that - my experience was in exploiting them for 20% of their gross compensation. You can do that without documentation.

Yeah... headhunters were the guys who'd send 5 new guys to a company, then wait 2 weeks, then start calling all 5 guys to see if they or anyone they worked with was ready to make a change.

 

[dross]

Yeah... headhunters were the guys who'd send 5 new guys to a company, then wait 2 weeks, then start calling all 5 guys to see if they or anyone they worked with was ready to make a change.

Lots of unsavory practices that we didn't engage in. We ran it straight up, which is how the company survived.

I know all the ways to cheat - never used any of them.

 

[Doug]

I don't really know about that - my experience was in [strike]exploiting them[/strike] helping them find gainful employment for 20% of their gross compensation. You can do that without documentation.

Fixed it for you.

 

[dross]

Fixed it for you.

Nah, I used it on purpose, since this is a union thread.

 

[dross]

Yeah... headhunters were the guys who'd send 5 new guys to a company, then wait 2 weeks, then start calling all 5 guys to see if they or anyone they worked with was ready to make a change.

Lots of unsavory practices that we didn't engage in. We ran it straight up, which is how the company survived.

I know all the ways to cheat - never used any of them.

Actually, you bring up a serious point about how the free market polices itself.

We had a nightmare after lots of people figured out that they could make a few bucks at recruiting in that market. They didn't understand the ethics and did lots of nasty things that gave them an advantage for the moment. Those places were the first to go under, because while people may have used them when things were crazy, as soon as the market tightened and companies and candidates could be more selective, our track record of dealing square kept us on the short list of companies and the best candidates.

 

[Arthur Dent]

Most of you guys are taking to the fringes without real knowledge of the whole matter. What eatsnopaste said is absolutely correct. Business DID do all of those things, some of them well into the 20th century. And it WAS unions that forced the changes in the law necessary to eliminate those abuses.
That said, large unions of today sometimes DO seriously impact a business' ability to profit, largely by their own inflexibility.
Here's a thought. Why don't you geniuses who refuse to see both sides of the issue run a business or two for a while, then join a labor union, or four, then get back to me.

Doing that they would have a real perspective.

 

[dross]

Doing that they would have a real perspective.

Why don't you address some of the many points that have been made on this subject rather than shoot out a meaningless one-liner?

Several people who disagree with unions have also demonstrated their personal experience with them, so that blows that point right out of the water.

C'mon, you can do better than that.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Why don't you address some of the many points that have been made on this subject rather than shoot out a meaningless one-liner?

Several people who disagree with unions have also demonstrated their personal experience with them, so that blows that point right out of the water.

C'mon, you can do better than that.

No. He can't.

 

[eatsnopaste]

I've run a multi-million dollar a year business for years without any need for a union for myself or my employees. In fact I have two businesses that I own. Why would I travel back to the Dark Ages where my profits are cut, my employees hate me and I them, where no one gets along, where there is no teamness?

No thank you. You can live in Unionland. I like it where I am.

Do or did you offer a health plan? Pay overtime? Give vacations..gasp..even PAID vacation time? Did you try to keep your people safe while they worked for you? These are all things that were brought about by unions and...AND..would more than likely go away if everything were decided by the board of directors. It costs money to do these things and if it could be cut...it would be.

 

[dross]

Do or did you offer a health plan? Pay overtime? Give vacations..gasp..even PAID vacation time? Did you try to keep your people safe while they worked for you? These are all things that were brought about by unions and...AND..would more than likely go away if everything were decided by the board of directors. It costs money to do these things and if it could be cut...it would be.

Why don't these things go away in non-union shops and places of employment?

I've worked in places where almost everyone was exempt, yet we still had vacation pay and health insurance. Why do you think that was?

 

[hornadylnl]

Do or did you offer a health plan? Pay overtime? Give vacations..gasp..even PAID vacation time? Did you try to keep your people safe while they worked for you? These are all things that were brought about by unions and...AND..would more than likely go away if everything were decided by the board of directors. It costs money to do these things and if it could be cut...it would be.

I work at a non union factory where our TRIR use to be in the 40's. That means that at least 40 out of 100 people got hurt worse than a band aid, etc. Our current management has gotten that down to an average of 5-8 % without a union breathing down their necks. Why did they do it? Out of the kindness of their hearts? That was some of it but money talks! It's cheaper to spend a little money on safer work practices and equipment than it is to pay medical bills. Damn evil capitalism making my workplace safer. How dare it!

 

[beararms1776]

give a little more than what they're paying for, so you are more valuable than the other business owners, AKA employees.

I like to agree to this dross but I've seen hard workers let go over lazy ones before for some reason.

 

[Arthur Dent]

No. He can't.

I have before, you just can't read very well.

 

[Arthur Dent]

Why don't you address some of the many points that have been made on this subject rather than shoot out a meaningless one-liner?

Several people who disagree with unions have also demonstrated their personal experience with them, so that blows that point right out of the water.

C'mon, you can do better than that.

What most of you have forgotten, since it didn't affect you directly, was that things like child labor, unsafe working conditions, seven day work weeks, no holidays, no healthcare, pay in the form of company merchandise are all things that did happen. The worst was probably not enough pay to live on, which forced people to live in company housing, buying from company stores at such high prices when all was said and done the employee owed the company money. Those things are all gone because of unions.

Our children don't have to work ten to fourteen hour days, seven days a week in work conditions that today would get a company shut down. You have a five day work week so you can spend time with your family. You get major holidays off so you can watch your kids open presents on Christmas day rather than having to trudge off to work. Most places offer healthcare so you don't go broke when get a broken arm set and cast. You get paid money rather than greeting cards. You could, until recently, earn enough to live somewhere and feed your family with a little left over to put away.

Employers don't do those thing because they think you're such a great and wonderful employee. They do it because if they don't they will either have to deal with a union coming in or have each and every last employee leave.

 

[Arthur Dent]

Why don't these things go away in non-union shops and places of employment?

I've worked in places where almost everyone was exempt, yet we still had vacation pay and health insurance. Why do you think that was?

Because unions also cover salaried professionals at some places. Professionals like engineers, accountants, doctors, etc.

Where I work most everyone is exempt and with the union almost non-existent we are losing our benefits.

 

[FordMan79]

+1

But if the Union was the Management who would they demonize?!