United Air forcibly removes passenger on overbooked flight

[avboiler11]

Stopped reading when she brought in 9/11. TSA And airport security (and the billions made by the contractors who supply them) continue to feed off of this fear.

Right, wrong or indifferent...Congresscritters and Senators from both parties have continued to not just feed but grow the beast known as DHS created post-9/11.

There are certainly threats to civil aviation out there, though I'd argue the typical one-striper smurf isn't exactly "keeping the streets on lockdown" if ya know what I mean...

 

[jamil]

Actually, overbooking is not knowingly selling something that you cannot provide. Statistically, they are only overselling enough seats to fill the vacancies left by those who are are no shows. It is a statistical calculation.

I guess I'm really not really so much about overbooking. Of course, it's irrelevant in this case, but since it's brought up, as long as everyone is made aware that they might get bumped, whatever. I understand why they do it. Empty seats means less money. People cancel or don't show for whatever reasons. I don't begrudge airlines for that. Plus, passengers don't typically get booted from the plan after boarding, for overbooking. You've explained some legitimate reasons why passengers may be booted from a flight, after boarding. But if they're booted from a flight after boarding because the flight was overbooked, then that is truly on the airline.

Of course, this issue had nothing to do with overbooking. It would probably be good if posters would stop conflating their emotions for overbooking with this issue, and just address what actually happened. And as I've explained, I think the airline is responsible for this even thought the blame can be shared among all actors. But geez. Social media is ablaze with people saying the value of this claim is millions. I just don't think so. If he can prove that his jaw was actually broken, and he actually lost teeth, plus the cost of stitches. Okay, maybe 50 grand for that, another 50 grand for pain and suffering, minus 50 grand for being a douchebag. I say the settlement is worth $50K + court costs and lawyer fees, plus strong words from the judge admonishing him to stop being a douchebag.

 

[avboiler11]

I'd put the claim settlement ultimately somewhere in the high six/very low seven figure range.

I also suspect it won't go to trial, and there will be NDAs involved.

 

[T.Lex]

I'd put the claim settlement ultimately somewhere in the high six/very low seven figure range.

I also suspect it won't go to trial, and there will be NDAs involved.

No way it goes that high IMHO.

Settlement value is high 5, low 6 figures. Just over the cost of litigation.

The federales have all sorts of protection/immunity and the regulatory environment very much favors their actions. The company has the same friendly regulatory environment and didn't actually participate in the bloodiness. Its almost a premises liability type thing, where the "victim" is a trespasser.

The hook for liability is very small, with the "victim" contributing significantly to the causation.

 

[Roland of Gilead]

Because unethical behavior is written into a contract to make it legal behavior, does not change the fact that the act is still unethical or immoral.

Legal does not always = right.

Repeated saying your dumb ass signed a contract and we can do whatever we want, is rubbing it in people's face. It is also boorish.

 

[T.Lex]

Because unethical behavior is written into a contract to make it legal behavior, does not change the fact that the act is still unethical or immoral.

Legal does not always = right.

Repeated saying your dumb ass signed a contract and we can do whatever we want, is rubbing it in people's face. It is also boorish.

Alas, settlement value is based on legality, not morality.

 

[churchmouse]

Alas, settlement value is based on legality, not morality.

Plus the actions of the good Dr. will come into play here.

 

[actaeon277]

The airlines can not "do whatever they want" because of the cntract, they have to follow it.
Just the same as a citizen having to follow it.


And, just because you jumped in your seat, doesn't mean boarding is complete.
It is not "home", you are not playing "tag", and neither party is 8.

 

[actaeon277]

First. Let's talk about blame and about what could have done by each party for this not to go viral.

1. Dr Douchebag could have been an adult about this and left the plane when he was asked to leave, and especially when Officer Blart showed up. If he'd have just complied, this thread wouldn't exist because there'd have been no video to go viral.

2. Officer Blart could have been more professional. If he has to remove a passenger by force, he should be able to subdue him without having to smash his face and and drag him out cave-man style. Had the security officers handled this more professionally, there may have been videos posted to the internet, but it probably wouldn't have gone viral as it did, and this thread would likely not exist.

3. United didn't overbook the flight. Passengers weren't prevented from boarding. They were seated. Four seats were needed to get crew to Louisville for a flight THE NEXT DAY. This wasn't a routine bumping of passengers. This was an "oh ****! We don't have a crew for that flight out of SDF tomorrow!". A meme would be appropriate here, but rather than taking the time, I'll just invoke the old saying, "poor planning on your part does not automatically constitute an emergency on mine!" Once you're seated, yah, it's on the airline if they have to kick people off the plane to make room for crew! If the airline would have realized they needed those 4 seats just minutes earlier, they'd have bumped 4 passengers BEFORE boarding, and this thread wouldn't exist because this wouldn't have gone viral.

So, all actors share blame for this going viral. So who is ultimately responsible? United. Officer Blart in a sense is acting as an agent for the Airline.

So where the analogy goes wrong is where it breaks down. Add in the factor that the Weather Channel was warning about the Hurricane all week, yet you let the tenants in your house anyway. And after they were settled in you demanded they get out because the Hurricane ruined your vacation. Another breakdown, there's no realistic way in the analogy to account for the fact that you're not evicting everyone, you're evicting just four of dozens of people, and offering them incentives to volunteer to leave.

I missed this in my migraine induced misery.
I agree with most, except...
Agent of the airline. I would argue it was an agent of Chicago government. Are they not Chicago employees, or subcontractors?
And the last paragraph. To modify my statement, I rent to 4 people, my vacation is canceled, I let 2 people stay.. cause I need the money more than the space, but 2 must go. Plans are used, which are in the contract. The contract everyone agreed on beforehand.

 

[singlesix]

I'm betting we'll never know the true cost of this, I bet it won't be made public. Maybe a statement both parties have agreed upon a settlement. Maybe I'll extend drive vs. fly time to 10 hrs or less by car.

 

[halfmileharry]

I don't think he should get squat.
IF he would have followed the instructions given to him then none of this would have happened.
His injuries are the result of his behavior.
Also, I'm wondering if he just made the "Never fly" again list for all this.

 

[Dutch68]

I hope he gets enough that he can Retire from that lousy Dr.'s job he has and bring all his relatives to Kentucky to help him enjoy his retirement.

 

[actaeon277]

If he's a doctor, I feel sorry for his patients.
What kind of care can he give them, since he can't be expected to follow instructions that he agreed to?

 

[KMaC]

If he's a doctor, I feel sorry for his patients.
What kind of care can he give them, since he can't be expected to follow instructions that he agreed to?

Don't worry about his patients, they don't feel a thing. Remember he lost his license for 10 years for selling prescriptions. I think we know the kind of "patients" he has.

 

[sloughfoot]

The flight was not "overbooked". Each passenger aboard was in his assigned and paid for, seat. The airline needed to move aircrew. Forcible removal of a passenger is a violation of Federal law. 14 CFR 250.2a. Since he was in his seat, it was "reserved" and "confirmed".

 

[PistolBob]

I hope he wins enough to buy United and fly every one of their damned planes into the ocean.

 

[Baditude]

Interesting everyone wants to go after United, they should, however nobody is calling for an investigation to the officer's actions. I would love to see their identities posted on the dark web, social justice sometimes is the best you can hope. Our international company has asked all employees to try and avoid using United for flights, perhaps enough people will think about their choices and shop with their conscious.

 

[Fizzerpilot]

Now United pilots are attacking the regional carrier that operated the flight...

Truth is, UAL employees are the ticket agents, customer service, ground security coordinator etc... the crew operating the flight had no say in overbooking, bumping, unseating passengers, calling security...

I bet the jumpseat gets really interesting when a mainline UAL guy wants to sit up front with a Republic crew now...

Im actually really surprised that the pilots Union, which knows all of this, is calling out their regional partner, when it's employees didn't have control of that situation at all.

 

[rob63]

I have read all of the arguments, various articles, and watched the videos. There seems to be quite a bit of misinformation being circulated, so it doesn't really surprise me that the Pilot's Union is blaming the regional carrier. It fits the pattern so far.

Regardless of all that, it still boils down to a couple of very simple facts for me.

1) The airline created the problem with the passenger.
2) The airline called the police to solve the problem with the passenger.

Therefore, the airline is responsible for whatever happened next.

No amount of blaming the passenger, the police, the regional carrier, or the legal small print on the back of the ticket changes the fact that the airline created a situation that ended with a 69 year old passenger being dragged off of an airplane with a bloody face and eventually being taken to a hospital in order to compensate for their failure to have a flight crew where they needed to be.

 

[Dirtebiker]

Nope. My buddies just had this happen. They were promised a hotel, meal voucher, etc... You know what they got? A cot in the airport without so much as a blanket like they were in a FEMA camp.

And last I looked, those airline vouchers can only be used during non peak season on red eyes and only booked while you're walking backwards going north during a rainy afternoon on main street. Point being, the stipulations on when/how you can use them are so ridiculous they're worthless and don't get used. How about the airlines offer actual cash.....

What vouchers are you guys talking about?
They were to be put on the next flight, the following day.