Unsafe at any speed or Serpa Holster

[wcd]

Whenever someone follows their opinion up with "With this fact established", I tend to want to tune out.

I switched from the serpa, but it had nothing to do with finger placement. I find it's design to be faster and easier to clear than the ALS.

I used to just ignore, now I tend to request the materials that support the established fact, but why stir the pot?

 

[CraigAPS]

I have a Serpa, which I used most of the last year. I switched between it and an open top leather OWB holster. I liked the retention and ease of putting it on/taking it off with the paddle attachment. I had no issues or qualms with using it. It stuck out a bit farther than my pancake holster. So, it was more of a "if I needed to take it off and on during errands or just running out really quickly" type of role. I would probably still use it this fall/winter, but I recently switched to a kydex IWB, which has been mind-blowing for me.

The Serpa's design induces you to jam your finger into the trigger guard when you get into a hurry. You have to deliberately train to avoid this design defect.

Numerous other holsters do not have this defect. The faster and harder you try to draw a Safariland holster, for example, the harder it gets to accidentally jam your finger into the trigger guard.

With this fact established, why on earth would you ever buy a Serpa over another option? I'm sorry if that hurts the feelings of people who bought a Serpa and feel loyalty to their purchase, but it's simply a deficient product that offers no advantage over the competitors...and that's not even getting into the subpar materials or issues with breakage and lockup from debris intrusion. The Serpa is garbage. Nobody should ever buy one, and the people who have bought one should throw it in the garbage and chalk it up to lessons learned.

It does NOT cause you to jam your finger into the trigger guard. If you keep your trigger finger straight, you're good. It's when people hook their finger that problems arise. I tried hundreds of draws (dry), and kept increasing the speed actually trying to replicate the results of all of the negative comments to no avail. Of course, I never had to do it during an actual defensive situation. So, knowing what would've happened in that case is obviously impossible.

As far as why one would choose it over other options, one might want a retention holster for a gun that other manufacturers don't produce a holster for. This is one of the major problems with blanket statements: They can NEVER actually encase every single scenario. They can only cover the scenarios the person making the statement has envisioned.

 

[CraigAPS]

I used to just ignore, now I tend to request the materials that support the established fact, but why stir the pot?

Because it's fun???

 

[wcd]

I have a Serpa, which I used most of the last year. I switched between it and an open top leather OWB holster. I liked the retention and ease of putting it on/taking it off with the paddle attachment. I had no issues or qualms with using it. It stuck out a bit farther than my pancake holster. So, it was more of a "if I needed to take it off and on during errands or just running out really quickly" type of role. I would probably still use it this fall/winter, but I recently switched to a kydex IWB, which has been mind-blowing for me.



It does NOT cause you to jam your finger into the trigger guard. If you keep your trigger finger straight, you're good. It's when people hook their finger that problems arise. I tried hundreds of draws (dry), and kept increasing the speed actually trying to replicate the results of all of the negative comments to no avail. Of course, I never had to do it during an actual defensive situation. So, knowing what would've happened in that case is obviously impossible.

As far as why one would choose it over other options, one might want a retention holster for a gun that other manufacturers don't produce a holster for. This is one of the major problems with blanket statements: They can NEVER actually encase every single scenario. They can only cover the scenarios the person making the statement has envisioned.

For me it really shines when I need to go out on short notice, sometimes it makes the difference between not carrying and having my edc. Which is never a bad thing especially since I just opted for the Lifetime HCP.

 

[Ggreen]

I can't get "III" on a "back the blue thin line" flag in a combination of zombie green and orange peel from serpa, and I kind of need everyone to know what I'm about when they look at my sheath.

 

[CraigAPS]

For me it really shines when I need to go out on short notice, sometimes it makes the difference between not carrying and having my edc. Which is never a bad thing especially since I just opted for the Lifetime HCP.

Most definitely (on both accounts)!

 

[bwframe]

I always had a bad impression of them due to the trigger finger required for working anything other than the trigger. That said, I was in a training exersize recently where the instructor had a serpa paddle holster to move the SIRT pistol between users. It was pointed out that the modern version of the holster has the release positioned to press to index the pistol frame rather than the old style inside the trigger guard.

 

[lonehoosier]

Same thread but six months ago.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry-issues-self-defense/453340-serpa-derpa.html

 

[croy]

If a rock pebble gets wedged under the button then you cannot get your gun out. For that reason. I'm out.

 

[Dean C.]

It's not even a question of being a cheapskate the Safariland ALS can be had for $70 in a set up similar to the SERPA so cost is not really an issue. It is a question of being intentionally stupid , most of us carry a firearm for that weird 1% chance we might need it, why in God's name would someone who goes to the trouble of strapping on a gun most days for a probably less than 1% chance of needing it willingly put their firearm in a dumpster fire of a holster that might lock up or outright break on you.

The 1% number is totally made up and just used to illustrate a point , the actual % chance of needing your firearm on a given day is hopefully less than 1%. Finally SERPA is stupid and so are the people that use it, especially if they know how bad it is.

 

[1775usmarine]

 

[churchmouse]

There is no reason to purchase a holster with a design deficiency you are forced to train around in order to avoid shooting yourself, when the market is full of other options that do not have the same design deficiency.

Yeah, a 1911 has a safety, but I still want to vote with my dollars and avoid setting a poor example for anyone else. The Serpa needs to be off the market.

As I was trained from the very 1st moment to keep my finger off the damned trigger until I was ready to fire the pistol what In The hell is everyone talking about. Train to properly use the damn side arm and the Serpa falls right into place. No training around the Serpa requires. Period.
It is Regular part of your excorsizes and the Serpa is actually one of the esiest to use. If you do it right with any holster at all.
Come on people Seriously. This is pistol handling 101. Not Serpa use. Leave your damned finger out of the trigger

 

[churchmouse]

It's not even a question of being a cheapskate the Safariland ALS can be had for $70 in a set up similar to the SERPA so cost is not really an issue. It is a question of being intentionally stupid , most of us carry a firearm for that weird 1% chance we might need it, why in God's name would someone who goes to the trouble of strapping on a gun most days for a probably less than 1% chance of needing it willingly put their firearm in a dumpster fire of a holster that might lock up or outright break on you.

The 1% number is totally made up and just used to illustrate a point , the actual % chance of needing your firearm on a given day is hopefully less than 1%. Finally SERPA is stupid and so are the people that use it, especially if they know how bad it is.

So know you call me stupid. You and I will be having a serious discussion when next we meet.
Keep t civil. I am not stupid. I find the safari offerings clumsy and actually harder to use. I posted up a series of pics to why in other one of these idiotic threads. I went to the expense of buying the one all the anti-serpa crowd told me to use. The ergos sucked for me. Carry position to high for my somfort. Lock difficult to operate comfortably. The holster shielded to much of much of the gun. It was all discussed.

Stupid. Whatever.

 

[churchmouse]

Pass the salt please.

 

[ECS686]

It's not even a question of being a cheapskate the Safariland ALS can be had for $70 in a set up similar to the SERPA so cost is not really an issue. It is a question of being intentionally stupid , most of us carry a firearm for that weird 1% chance we might need it, why in God's name would someone who goes to the trouble of strapping on a gun most days for a probably less than 1% chance of needing it willingly put their firearm in a dumpster fire of a holster that might lock up or outright break on you.

The 1% number is totally made up and just used to illustrate a point , the actual % chance of needing your firearm on a given day is hopefully less than 1%. Finally SERPA is stupid and so are the people that use it, especially if they know how bad it is.

Respectfully let me talk about some experience and observations I have had. But first a statement. I personally don't like the Serpa. That said I spent over 10 years on a DOJ FBOP SORT team as a member, M/O and a trainer. As a trainer I was reponsible for traveling throughout the country job wise to certify other teams. (Not to mention all the cross country and local trips we did) We were mandated by powers that be to adopt Serpa for our Sig 228 around 2007

What I can tell you is we used them hard shooting multi weapons courses and repelling with them, utilizing breaching equipment. We crawled through everything from sand, pebbles, White Rock and any number of grasses.We abused the heck out of them
through all that II can tell you there was never any "locked" or " malfunctioning" holsters that is famous on the internet.

Is Serpa the best holster? Probably not and like I said I personally don't like it as much as our Safarilands we used before. That said through my detailed experience with it mandated as a duty holster it never broke or had issues that the urban legend says happens.so I can't give it across the board blanket statement of "it sucks"

Again just respectfully sharing my duty experience.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Pass the salt please.

Melted butter?

 

[1775usmarine]

Pass the salt please.

I like to use the liberal tears brand. Hope you don't mind.

 

[VERT]

That is what I use when a 1911 goes out with me. Like DD said, train with it. I am sure the negatory's will be along soon enough.

http://rangemaster.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/2018-11_RFTS-Newsletter.pdf

Ask and you shall receive. RangeMaster’s take on the topic. I don’t think GunSite allows the Serpa either unless it is department issued, but I may be mistaken.

I have never witnessed an AD but have seen the lock fail and the gun get stuck in the holster. There are simply better holsters to spend $40 on.

Now I will go back and read the other responses and wait for the flaming arrows.

edit: After reading I suppose I won’t be catching any arrows, Ark and Dean have cleared the road. The butthurt will flow freely but that doesn’t make those posts incorrect. Many very well regarded training and law enforcement organizations say no to Serpa. Several well respected trainers on INGO say no to Serpa. I understand the Serpa has served with distinction oversees and on the hips of LEOs at home and I hope that continues. However, there are simply better options for people such as myself. Otherwise make the decision you feel best for you and carry on.

 

[Ark]

Ark and Dean have cleared the road. The butthurt will flow freely

I am nourished by the butthurt of Serpa owners.

I will say that as a dumb bucket for you to dump the gun in while you load magazines on the range, the Serpa is probably fine. But as part of a serious defensive weapons system? That's a no for me, dawg, and in 2018 I don't think you can find any reputable, nationally recognized trainer who will recommend using it as such.

 

[Goodcat]

I never shot myself using a Serpa. That being said, I prefer other designs myself because of I prefer my trigger finger mechanics to be focused on one thing only. Some people like them, and no problem. Whatever works for the individual. Just stay safe.