Update to DNR legal deer hunting equipment 10.11.2017

[CountryBoy19]

I've believed the DNR have been up to some trickery on this from the beginning. They want us to think it is the fault of legislators because it is modern day common that legislators get blamed for everything and have terrible ratings. It is not the legislator's duty to understand every tiny nuance of things they may not participate in.

It was the DNR's job to steward this through, that is what they are paid for. There is NO excuse for this getting to any vote being wrong as it supposedly is.

It is also very suspect that there is no emergency provision to be made to accommodate already published regulations and common knowledge of rules that were not subject to change.

This smells bad and it's not getting any better. They work for us. Heads need to roll...

If you had asked me a week ago I would have disagreed with you because it does seem like it was out of their hands once the issue was discovered but I came across a thread from June in the Indiana Hometown section of arfcom a few days ago that led me to believe otherwise. In that thread a poster stated CO's were aware of this problem BEFORE this year's guides were printed and they were confident that the guides were going to be printed with PCRs ruled-out for public property. That leads me to believe it had been filtered from the CO's up the chain to mgmt., or down the chain from mgmt. to the CO's. So at least a reasonably large portion of DNR (CO's and their mgmt.) had to have known about this issue by June of this year. Which, to me, leads me to believe they were intentionally delaying the release of this until it was "too late to fix it for this year". What could the motive be? The only motive I can see is to test the waters to see how much of a stink is raised about it. The only reason to test that is to gather data that can be used to determine the path forward wrt rifles on public property (PCR or HPR).

So, if you're unhappy about this, raise a big stink. If you really want to get some attention get the home number for your state legislator and let him/her know you're NOT happy.

 

[KLB]

Harassing a legislator at their home seems like a poor way to get your point across.

 

[BiscuitsandGravy]

I've believed the DNR have been up to some trickery on this from the beginning. They want us to think it is the fault of legislators because it is modern day common that legislators get blamed for everything and have terrible ratings. It is not the legislator's duty to understand every tiny nuance of things they may not participate in.

It was the DNR's job to steward this through, that is what they are paid for. There is NO excuse for this getting to any vote being wrong as it supposedly is.

It is also very suspect that there is no emergency provision to be made to accommodate already published regulations and common knowledge of rules that were not subject to change.

This smells bad and it's not getting any better. They work for us. Heads need to roll...

If you had asked me a week ago I would have disagreed with you because it does seem like it was out of their hands once the issue was discovered but I came across a thread from June in the Indiana Hometown section of arfcom a few days ago that led me to believe otherwise. In that thread a poster stated CO's were aware of this problem BEFORE this year's guides were printed and they were confident that the guides were going to be printed with PCRs ruled-out for public property. That leads me to believe it had been filtered from the CO's up the chain to mgmt., or down the chain from mgmt. to the CO's. So at least a reasonably large portion of DNR (CO's and their mgmt.) had to have known about this issue by June of this year. Which, to me, leads me to believe they were intentionally delaying the release of this until it was "too late to fix it for this year". What could the motive be? The only motive I can see is to test the waters to see how much of a stink is raised about it. The only reason to test that is to gather data that can be used to determine the path forward wrt rifles on public property (PCR or HPR).

So, if you're unhappy about this, raise a big stink. If you really want to get some attention get the home number for your state legislator and let him/her know you're NOT happy.

It sure appears that way. They possibly knew this was coming and didn't do anything to fix it. Why? Was it a gotcha due to the original legislation that basically nullified all the effort from the DNR to get rifles approved and then ultimately caved? Sort of dirty?

If this is the case, the DNR should follow-up with all the youth that hunted 'youth weekend' in September and may/may not have used now illegal equipment on state property? Hmm... Interesting...

I'm trying to keep an open mind about a possibly honest mistake but .

 

[CountryBoy19]

Harassing a legislator at their home seems like a poor way to get your point across.

I didn't say anything about harassing them. I said to contact them at their home. They aren't in session, so they're normally found at home instead of their office in Indy...

It sure appears that way. They possibly new this was coming and didn't do anything to fix it. Why? Was it a gotcha due to the original legislation that basically nullified all the effort from the DNR to get rifles approved and the ultimately caved? Sort of dirty?

If this is the case, the DNR should follow-up with all the youth that hunted 'youth weekend' in September and may/may not have used now illegal equipment on state property? Hmm... Interesting...

I'm trying to keep an open mind about a possibly honest mistake but .

I feel especially bad for the youth. I have a coworker with 3 girls, he said the 2 younger girls just absolutely cannot handle a slug-gun. They've come to love hunting because the ability to use PCRs the last several years. They exclusively hunt public property (HNF). He doesn't know what he's going to do for the younger girls this year. They likely just won't hunt he said. It would be a shame to see them lose interest because of a royal screw-up by the legislators.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Harassing a legislator at their home seems like a poor way to get your point across.

I didn't say anything about harassing them. I said to contact them at their home. They aren't in session, so they're normally found at home instead of their office in Indy...

It sure appears that way. They possibly new this was coming and didn't do anything to fix it. Why? Was it a gotcha due to the original legislation that basically nullified all the effort from the DNR to get rifles approved and the ultimately caved? Sort of dirty?

If this is the case, the DNR should follow-up with all the youth that hunted 'youth weekend' in September and may/may not have used now illegal equipment on state property? Hmm... Interesting...

I'm trying to keep an open mind about a possibly honest mistake but .

I feel especially bad for the youth. I have a coworker with 3 girls, he said the 2 younger girls just absolutely cannot handle a slug-gun. They've come to love hunting because the ability to use PCRs the last several years. They exclusively hunt public property (HNF). He doesn't know what he's going to do for the younger girls this year. They likely just won't hunt he said. It would be a shame to see them lose interest because of a royal screw-up by the legislators.

 

[BiscuitsandGravy]

I didn't say anything about harassing them. I said to contact them at their home. They aren't in session, so they're normally found at home instead of their office in Indy...

I feel especially bad for the youth. I have a coworker with 3 girls, he said the 2 younger girls just absolutely cannot handle a slug-gun. They've come to love hunting because the ability to use PCRs the last several years. They exclusively hunt public property (HNF). He doesn't know what he's going to do for the younger girls this year. They likely just won't hunt he said. It would be a shame to see them lose interest because of a royal screw-up by the legislators.

For sure. We had a CO knock on the door in December about the buck taken back in Sept for youth weekend last year. Everything was ok but he still took-the-time-to check. Where is the DNR guidance on how this is supposed to be addressed or am I missing something? There could be A LOT of kids and parents thinking everything was done by-the-book and now have some fines pending. "Well, the Legislature changed the law and the guide was actually printed incorrectly so now you get fined and where is the meat and your equipment?, here is a ticket for $$$. Have a nice day."

Consistency in policy would be helpful here.

 

[KLB]

I didn't say anything about harassing them. I said to contact them at their home. They aren't in session, so they're normally found at home instead of their office in Indy...

Is it a normal thing to contact them at home at that time? I don't see my Rep's home phone and address listed on his official page nor on his Facebook page.

 

[Ggreen]

Is it a normal thing to contact them at home at that time? I don't see my Rep's home phone and address listed on his official page nor on his Facebook page.

I've been to dinner with a state representative and had him get the business at the table for voting on something. He shrugged it off and went on with dinner after. I think once you put yourself on the ballot you lose an element of your privacy. Right or wrong it seems to be pretty standard operating procedures and that is why most have unlisted personal cell phones rather than publicly listed land lines.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Is it a normal thing to contact them at home at that time? I don't see my Rep's home phone and address listed on his official page nor on his Facebook page.

What is your definition of normal? For a number of years (prior to me being voting age) our rep was a personal acquaintance of the family. I went to school with his kids, he showed up at school events. I knew where his house was and wouldn't have thought anything of dropping by to pay him a bit of my mind if he played a role in a screw-up this bad.

That being said, it's not normal for an unintentional mistake to go this long unnoticed and have this large of an impact on people. So I think unusual circumstances can definitely dictate unusual responses. And if that means dropping by his house to let him know that he played a role in a royal screw-up that needs to be fixed NOW, not in the next session, then I would definitely be doing that.

I think once you put yourself on the ballot you lose an element of your privacy. Right or wrong it seems to be pretty standard operating procedures and that is why most have unlisted personal cell phones rather than publicly listed land lines.

This^^ You give up a certain amount of privacy by becoming a legislative representative; you serve the public, you must expect the public to contact you and if you're not at your office because it's the "off-season" then you have to expect you may be contacted at home. I certainly would if I were a rep; I wouldn't particularly enjoy that, but I would accept it as one of the downsides to my job.

That being said, if within 1 week of Trump's travel ban, people could file suit and get a temporary court-order blocking the ban, could we not do something similar and file suit to get a temporary "something" done to permit their use this season and let the legislature figure it out next session?

 

[openwell]

Not real familiar with this thread..................................but The 2016 original vote to allow 5 rifle calibers for deer was a very close vote.........................26 to 24 in favor of the legislation per the record. I was mad and talked to NRA regional rep. about and June summer bills correction meeting to fix it. Suggested waiting since that was not designed to fix things. No use to pressure politicians when things are so hot. I don't think this mess can be fixed quickly so................. Try and get Rifles for hunting deer in Indiana >>>>>>>>>>> on LANDS within the borders................

 

[Willie]

Not real familiar with this thread..................................but The 2016 original vote to allow 5 rifle calibers for deer was a very close vote.........................26 to 24 in favor of the legislation per the record. I was mad and talked to NRA regional rep. about and June summer bills correction meeting to fix it. Suggested waiting since that was not designed to fix things. No use to pressure politicians when things are so hot. I don't think this mess can be fixed quickly so................. Try and get Rifles for hunting deer in Indiana >>>>>>>>>>> on LANDS within the borders................

You are correct BUT... This is not really about the new HPRs as they can be used on private ground. That portion has been OKed. What the big screw up is that the so called PCRs can not be used on public ground anymore after almost a decade of use. Lots of unhappy people especially those with kids that have been using the lower recoil PCRs.

 

[snapping turtle]

Oct 23 just around the corner. I have a feeling there will be an announcement saving the day.
it would seem something could be done by someone.

I was stopped (one private land) by CO last year and had to unload the 44 mag so he could count the shells. I stated that the ten round rule was not for PCR rifles. He stated that was a grey area. If I had more than 10 could have been written up. After all he did check after asking what the gun was. So they knew last year and were trolling for stuff. He never looking in pockets or anything but still.

 

[Hookeye]

Not real familiar with this thread..................................but The 2016 original vote to allow 5 rifle calibers for deer was a very close vote.........................26 to 24 in favor of the legislation per the record. I was mad and talked to NRA regional rep. about and June summer bills correction meeting to fix it. Suggested waiting since that was not designed to fix things. No use to pressure politicians when things are so hot. I don't think this mess can be fixed quickly so................. Try and get Rifles for hunting deer in Indiana >>>>>>>>>>> on LANDS within the borders................

The initial HP rifle law was for 5 specific CARTRIDGES..........not calibers.
Those 5 cartridges could be grouped into TWO calibers.
".308" was one of those listed.

What is a .308 ?
.308 Norma Mag, .308 win, .308 Baer, .308 Lazzaroni etc?

So last yr the DNR made a clarification saying anything of those two calibers (.243 and .308) according to a case spec.
This yr it's just .243 and up caliber wise.

 

[Willie]

I've been assured by the DNR that there "is work being done on a fix"...

Time will tell....

 

[BiscuitsandGravy]

I've been assured by the DNR that there "is work being done on a fix"...

Time will tell....

That sounds cautiously positive. It will be a real test of administration on both legislature and DNR if they have the leadership and courage to apply a temporary fix to this mess that could most likely been avoided. Sure- legislators will hopefully fix the law, but 'leaders' should be able to show that they have the aptitude to address it.

Or- they could just be petty jerks and say f-you to the tax payers- who's taxes pay for salaries and budgets.

Leadership leads, jerks will be jerks. Choose your path.

Exactly- 'time will tell...'

 

[luvall]

Is 6.5 Creedmoor legal on public land?

 

[snapping turtle]

Is 6.5 Creedmoor legal on public land?

No

 

[Hookeye]

Is 6.5 Creedmoor legal on public land?

Only if in a handgun.

C'mon people..............this isn't hard.

6mm= .24 cal in rifle speak
7mm= .28 cal in rifle speak

PCR which for years was public land legal rifle.......is .35 cal and larger. Has case spec of 1.16 to 1.8"
The HP rifle allowance was for private land only and is .24 and up, case spec 1.16 -3"
Handgun spec is .24 and up, case is 1.16 min.
Even under current DNR/Legal nonsense..........handguns legal on public land.

Seriously............it aint hard.

 

[dugsagun]

Wow, all this dnr nonsense makes me glad i went to arkansas this year and got a doe during the private land antlerless only season on my dads land. Hopefully the dnr will release a quick fix for this season for the pcr's on public land.

 

[openwell]

I've been assured by the DNR that there "is work being done on a fix"...

Time will tell....

They need to fix this ONCE-AND-FOR-ALL............................. Ain't no such thing as a high-powered rifle or a pistol-centerfired rifle EXCEPT for some non-sense Ebonics type language comin from the State of Indiana.............

All centerfire rifles larger than .223 Need to be legal for deer hunting in indiana................period ! exclamation point LOL................

Could fix just like when handguns became legal weapons*********,, Pronouncement that allowed use on shotgun tags*********,,then printed handgun tags to get more money the next year. ha ha, so simple even to the young and inexperienced.........................