US appeals court panel: Law against faking receipt of military medals is unconstituti

[USMC_0311]

FOXNews.com - US appeals court panel: Law against faking receipt of military medals is unconstitutional

California never ceases to amaze me. While I like free speech, I still don't like liars. Does freedom of speech give you the right to lie?

 

[dross]

FOXNews.com - US appeals court panel: Law against faking receipt of military medals is unconstitutional

California never ceases to amaze me. While I like free speech, I still don't like liars. Does freedom of speech give you the right to lie?

Yes.

 

[Expat]

FOXNews.com - US appeals court panel: Law against faking receipt of military medals is unconstitutional

California never ceases to amaze me. While I like free speech, I still don't like liars. Does freedom of speech give you the right to lie?

You can't lie to a federal agent. You can't lie to commit fraud. You can't lie to defame someone else. I think by doing this you are defaming an entire class of people.

 

[dross]

You can't lie to a federal agent. You can't lie to commit fraud. You can't lie to defame someone else. I think by doing this you are defaming an entire class of people.

You added different elements to lying. You can lie to a federal agent over a beer about how big the fish you caught was. You can't commit fraud, but only one element of that is the lie.

You aren't "defaming" the military by wearing an unauthorized medal. You're being a scumbag, you just aren't a criminal.

 

[USMC_0311]

What about any civil recourse?

 

[cosermann]

Obviously they can't allow a law like this to stand.
Just think how many politicians it would make criminals?

 

[USMC_0311]

Obviously they can't allow a law like this to stand.
Just think how many politicians it would make criminals?

Good point.

 

[ATOMonkey]

Medals are a funny thing. The guys who get them, and live, don't think they deserve them. A lot of medals carry emotional baggage and I don't know one guy who wouldn't trade his medal to bring someone back. The guys who are honored posthumously are done so for people to cope with the loss as much as anything else.

Medals are only won with extreme sacrifice.

Why someone would fake that is beyond me, and frankly I feel sorry for anyone who thinks a ribbon and piece of metal can make them better than they are.

 

[jeremy]

I do agree with the Courts decision on this. However I also think it should be allowed to whip these people to within an inch of their lives also...

Sometimes it is a shame that we have become civilized...

 

[cosermann]

How about lying about military service/medals when either/or are represented as "credentials" or "qualifications" for hire/election?

Should it be legal to falsify credentials/qualifications?

 

[pudly]

You aren't "defaming" the military by wearing an unauthorized medal. You're being a scumbag, you just aren't a criminal.

The problem is that they are committing fraud and now the govt is enabling it. Those claiming awards for honor and valor (and who by definition don't have those qualities if they fake it) greatly reduce the value of the awards and harm the actual recipients.

I wonder how this same court would have ruled if this was about someone faking college degrees that they had not earned. The exact same arguments apply. Does this court actually want to say that everyone can claim PhDs from Ivy League schools?

My suspicion is that they would have ruled differently and that this is more about anti-military bias than whether or not this is about fraud. Fraud is not protected speech.

-Sir Dr. Pudly, Esq.

 

[hornadylnl]

There's nothing unconstitutional about lying to friends. If someone is telling me about medals they earned, then my BS meter usually pegs quickly. I've known very few people who earn a medal and talk to people about it. Same with war stories in general. Almost always, the person that earned it doesn't wear or talk about them for recognition.

 

[dross]

How about lying about military service/medals when either/or are represented as "credentials" or "qualifications" for hire/election?

Should it be legal to falsify credentials/qualifications?

The problem is that they are committing fraud and now the govt is enabling it. Those claiming awards for honor and valor (and who by definition don't have those qualities if they fake it) greatly reduce the value of the awards and harm the actual recipients.

I wonder how this same court would have ruled if this was about someone faking college degrees that they had not earned. The exact same arguments apply. Does this court actually want to say that everyone can claim PhDs from Ivy League schools?

My suspicion is that they would have ruled differently and that this is more about anti-military bias than whether or not this is about fraud. Fraud is not protected speech.

-Sir Dr. Pudly, Esq.

Faking qualifications isn't illegal, it's a civil matter.

 

[pudly]

Faking qualifications isn't illegal, it's a civil matter.

Seriously? Go ahead and pretend you are a LEO and let me know how that works out. Is that law unconstitutional as well? This isn't about making all lies illegal. This is about being able to have laws that say some egregious lies cross the line to criminality.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Faking qualifications isn't illegal, it's a civil matter.

Depends. Practicing medicine under false qualifications maybe. If someone were to lie about military service and get healthcare from the VA that would be another.

Seriously? Go ahead and pretend you are a LEO and let me know how that works out. Is that law unconstitutional as well? This isn't about making all lies illegal. This is about being able to have laws that say some egregious lies cross the line to criminality.

Depends, if I told the girl next to me at the bar I was an LEO in an attempt to impress her to get into her pants, that would legal I believe. If I attempted to order someone under the color of law that would be different and illegal.

IC 35-44-2-3
Impersonation of a public servant
Sec. 3. A person who falsely represents that the person is a public servant, with intent to mislead and induce another person to submit to false official authority or otherwise to act to the other person's detriment in reliance on the false representation, commits impersonation of a public servant, a Class A misdemeanor. However, a person who falsely represents that the person is:
(1) a law enforcement officer; or
(2) an agent or employee of the department of state revenue, and collects any property from another person;
commits a Class D felony.

 

[pudly]

Depends, if I told the girl next to me at the bar I was an LEO in an attempt to impress her to get into her pants, that would legal I believe. If I attempted to order someone under the color of law that would be different and illegal.

So you agree that it is legal and constitutional to have some laws penalizing some egregious lies, just noy all lies.

 

[dross]

Seriously? Go ahead and pretend you are a LEO and let me know how that works out. Is that law unconstitutional as well? This isn't about making all lies illegal. This is about being able to have laws that say some egregious lies cross the line to criminality.

Depends. Practicing medicine under false qualifications maybe. If someone were to lie about military service and get healthcare from the VA that would be another.



Depends, if I told the girl next to me at the bar I was an LEO in an attempt to impress her to get into her pants, that would legal I believe. If I attempted to order someone under the color of law that would be different and illegal.

Do I have to list all exceptions to make my point?

Lying about job qualifications is legal except for certain categories. As far as I know, you can lie about your LEO experience, you just can't pretend to be currently operating with the authority of an LEO if you are not one.

Wearing medals you didn't earn makes you a scumbag. A law isn't the fix for every problem.

 

[lashicoN]

Why would someone want to lie about receiving a military medal?

What ever happened to shunning people? That seemed like a neat idea to punish jerks and idiots.

While I don't believe this sort of this should be punishable at all, my creativity cap is on and it would be interesting to make the people who lied about earning the medal actually go through what it took to earn the medal...but once again, in reality, what is the harm of some jackass telling you he earned a medal he didn't actually earn? Would you really hire someone for a job, based solely on the fact that they earned a specific medal?

 

[rambone]

I think 40-year-old women who claim they are 30 should be arrested. Also when they lie about being employed, being married and having kids. And STDs.

Officers! There she is! She's the one who lied to me! Off to the Thought Prison with her! Bwahaha

 

[dross]

So you agree that it is legal and constitutional to have some laws penalizing some egregious lies, just noy all lies.

You're focusing on one element, the lie.

Who did you lie to? What harms were caused by the lie? What did you gain by the lie?

A lie to a woman to get into her pants? You're just a jerk.

A lie to an LEO? Depends. Was he investigating you? Was the lie to misdirect the investigation?

A lie about your qualifications to perform surgery? Yes.

Wearing medals you didn't earn? Not even technically a lie - actors do it all the time in movie roles.