USS John S. McCain collides with merchant vessel

[Cameramonkey]

Another vote for "it's happening at a similar pace but since we hate the prez, let's talk it up more in case it makes him look bad"

 

[BugI02]

Too soon to go paranoid?

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...-spoofing-attack-suggest-russian-cyberweapon/

Ships fooled in GPS spoofing attack suggest Russian cyberweapon


If the Russians can do it; smart money says China can, too

 

[actaeon277]

Too soon to go paranoid?

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...-spoofing-attack-suggest-russian-cyberweapon/

Ships fooled in GPS spoofing attack suggest Russian cyberweapon


If the Russians can do it; smart money says China can, too

Or.... someone can get off the chair and look out the wjndow.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Or.... someone can get off the chair and look out the wjndow.

You mean visual observation? Sometimes the old ways are the best ways.

 

[Birds Away]

You mean visual observation? Sometimes the old ways are the best ways.

During normal steaming ops there should be no less than five people continuously scanning the horizon for contacts. The problem is that both of the most recent collisions happened in very high traffic areas at night. All you see are dozens of lights against a black canvas. This can be very deceptive as ships lights can merge and make you believe that two contacts are one or making you believe a contact is heading in one direction when it is not. Correlating visual contacts with radar contacts is easy when there are a dozen within 20 miles. When there are over a hundred, including multiple fishing vessels that might be DIW or barely making way it gets a lot tougher. Factor in sea return on your surface search radar, other atmospheric anomalies, weather, and fatigue of the watch team and it is very easy to imagine how things like this happen. Also, don't believe the talking heads when they talk about all the technology on these billion dollar warships and how could they possibly miss something coming at them. The surface search radars on most navy ships aren't any better than standard commercial navigation radars. Also, I retired about a dozen years ago so possibly things have changed but I have never seen a "collision avoidance system" on a U.S. Navy ship.

 

[actaeon277]

During normal steaming ops there should be no less than five people continuously scanning the horizon for contacts. The problem is that both of the most recent collisions happened in very high traffic areas at night. All you see are dozens of lights against a black canvas. This can be very deceptive as ships lights can merge and make you believe that two contacts are one or making you believe a contact is heading in one direction when it is not. Correlating visual contacts with radar contacts is easy when there are a dozen within 20 miles. When there are over a hundred, including multiple fishing vessels that might be DIW or barely making way it gets a lot tougher. Factor in sea return on your surface search radar, other atmospheric anomalies, weather, and fatigue of the watch team and it is very easy to imagine how things like this happen. Also, don't believe the talking heads when they talk about all the technology on these billion dollar warships and how could they possibly miss something coming at them. The surface search radars on most navy ships aren't any better than standard commercial navigation radars. Also, I retired about a dozen years ago so possibly things have changed but I have never seen a "collision avoidance system" on a U.S. Navy ship.

Most people don't even know what "sea return" is.

 

[Birds Away]

Most people don't even know what "sea return" is.

True. Being on a pitch dark bridge in a busy seaway trying to make sense of the surface picture, correlate your radar nav and visual fixes while staying precisely on schedule is not for the faint of heart.

 

[actaeon277]

True. Being on a pitch dark bridge in a busy seaway trying to make sense of the surface picture, correlate your radar nav and visual fixes while staying precisely on schedule is not for the faint of heart.

You're making me homesick.

 

[Birds Away]

You're making me homesick.

Yeah, I feel the same way. We should probably seek professional help.

 

[actaeon277]

Yeah, I feel the same way. We should probably seek professional help.

I can't. I had to break up with Bacardi 151.


And a note: It's hard to fit that many lookouts on a sub's bridge.
But, they are VERY motivated. Subs tend to not have very many survivors.

 

[T.Lex]

Sounds like you guys could get some lucrative contracts as civilian trainers.

Seriously, there IS something to be said for having analog fallbacks to digital systems.

 

[Birds Away]

I can't. I had to break up with Bacardi 151.


And a note: It's hard to fit that many lookouts on a sub's bridge.
But, they are VERY motivated. Subs tend to not have very many survivors.

A lookout on a surface ship, other than the officers standing bridge watch, are the bottom of the food chain. They are often the newest or the least motivated folks on the ship.

 

[Birds Away]

Sounds like you guys could get some lucrative contracts as civilian trainers.

Seriously, there IS something to be said for having analog fallbacks to digital systems.

That's the big lie with all the talking heads you see on TV. The surface picture on a U.S. Navy ship is done mostly manually just like we've done it for decades. The Aegis combat system doesn't like to do slow and close. It was designed for fast and far or fast and low.

 

[actaeon277]

Sounds like you guys could get some lucrative contracts as civilian trainers.

Seriously, there IS something to be said for having analog fallbacks to digital systems.

Why would we need to train civies?







I found a pic of the bridge watchstanders

 

[actaeon277]

That's the big lie with all the talking heads you see on TV. The surface picture on a U.S. Navy ship is done mostly manually just like we've done it for decades. The Aegis combat system doesn't like to do slow and close. It was designed for fast and far or fast and low.

Cause Aegis is anti-missile oriented.

 

[Birds Away]

Cause Aegis is anti-missile oriented.

Yep, anti-air and anti-missile.

 

[Birds Away]

It's almost impossible to have a good automated surface system for inside 20 miles as there is so much noise and so many false returns. It tends to really glob up the system and make it unusable.

 

[T.Lex]

That's the big lie with all the talking heads you see on TV. The surface picture on a U.S. Navy ship is done mostly manually just like we've done it for decades.

All the more reason for better trainers! Clearly they're not doing as good a job of it as they used to.

(Although, I tend to discount the "more scrutiny because of Trump" because I - like you guys, I suspect - tend to watch for these kind of stories, and it feels like there's been more of them recently. There may be a bit of truth to how much airtime they are getting, though.)

Why would we need to train civies?

HA!

Personally, I think many (most?) young people would be better able to hand adulthood with at least some military training. Part of me would be very interested in an Israeli or Korean style system of mandated service. But, most of me remains small-gov't, pro-freedom so I don't really think it is a good idea.

 

[Birds Away]

I was a team leader on a training team that taught navigation, surface picture management among many other things. I did that on for several years. Mostly I remember spending a lot of time in airports and living out of a suitcase.

 

[actaeon277]

Also, when wondering why ships can collide, look at how many cars are in accidents driving 10 miles from home.
What would happen if you drove that car 24 hours a day?


Then, your workday went like this
(copied from FB)
A typical day in the life of a Sailor on USS NEVER DOCK:
First you have to woof down breakfast, because your relief was ten minutes late in relieving you.
Then you have to zoom down to berthing, to shower and shave, and then don your service dress white uniform for the inspection at quarters....
As you climb up the ladder, the ship rolls, and your right hand finds the only dirty spot on MVHC Station #11.
Then the ship rolls again, and your right hand dirties up your sparkling dress white jumper.
Then you get a down check at the inspection.
After the inspection, you change back into your working uniform.
Then you go to your work center, and learn that you and FN Flangehead are to perform a PMS check on the aft whirlydd%+&
Then you have to find the PMS Card.
Then you have to find the required tools and lubricant.
Then you have to find the Hazmat Locker Czar, because the lubricant cannot be stored in your work center.
Then you have to initiate a tag-out.
Then you have to hang all the Danger Tags.
Then you have to place the tag out sheet back in the tag out log.
Then you have to remove the aft whirlyda#$%*@ chain cover, so you can lubricate the chain.
Then as you try to re-install the chain cover, the cover slips out our greasy hand, and as Murphy’s Law would dictate, the cover falls and breaks the chain speed sensor.
Then you decide that all petroleum products are a bane to your existence.
Then you have to find the Work Center Supervisor, to tell him about the broken speed sensor.
Then you have to find the technical manual.
Then you have to find the manufacturer’s code and part number.
Then you have to cross reference the manufacture’s part number to the applicable NSN.
Then you have to cross reference the NSN to the APL number.
Then you have to find the applicable EIC.
Then you have to find an unused SNAP II Terminal.
Then you have to write up a job to replace the aft whirlyd#$@%&* chain speed sensor.
Then you have to write up the job again, because the 3MC decided to take the system down for a data print out.
Then you have to wait in line at the Supply Support Center.
Then you give the NSN to the Storekeeper, and request a stock check.
Then the SK tells you that not only it isn’t carried, it isn’t even listed.
Then you have to find the duty head.
Then you have to find the Division Officer, so he can initiate a CASREP.
Then you have to get chewed out by the Chief, because you took too [bleep]ing long and because you broke the aft whirlyd&$#%@&!
Then you have to get ready for the next watch.