Video from W. Memphis and warning about the "right wing" killing cops.

[ghostinthewood]

Title

I dont know what else to title this really. This video makes me mad to my stomach, but thats unreasonable and unproductive. Its also horribly sad. Officers gunned down in West Memphis..

YouTube - Officer Safety - West Memphis 2010 Incident

 

[henktermaat]

Tragic...

However: "Recognize the warning size of "sovereign belief" Sounds like the same blather that came out of DHS. Typical nonsense where they lump everyone in the same bucket... "they are willing to kill." What are those signs? I bet they are constitution believe and gun ownership.

And I bet every good citizen in their area is illegally disarmed.

 

[ghostinthewood]

Actually I've seen the whole video, and thats not it at all. =]

Same as any other profile, certain typical responses and details that seem to be common. Nothing evil about it at all...

Mind you, he didnt say that everyone that acts that way is a terrorist. Its a warning sign.

Kind of like when you're walking down the street and you see shady people and you check your knife/gun/whatever is where you left it (as if it grew legs and ran away). You dont think they're criminals, they just spark your interest. Seeing as how this is a gun forum I dont understand the aprehension in being alert and prepared. *shrug* I dont see it as being unreasonable at all.

Seems like you're making a lot of assumptions.

I'll poke around for the 12min video to be fair. I mean people might as well get the whole video if its going to turn in to "one of those" topics. I just didnt want to bore people with 12min of video. Thats like an hour in interent time.

 

[henktermaat]

Actually I've seen the whole video, and thats not it at all. =]

Same as any other profile, certain typical responses and details that seem to be common. Nothing evil about it at all...

Mind you, he didnt say that everyone that acts that way is a terrorist. Its a warning sign.

Kind of like when you're walking down the street and you see shady people and you check your knife/gun/whatever is where you left it (as if it grew legs and ran away). You dont think they're criminals, they just spark your interest. Seeing as how this is a gun forum I dont understand the aprehension in being alert and prepared. *shrug* I dont see it as being unreasonable at all.

Seems like you're making a lot of assumptions.

I feel for the LEOs that get hurt on the job... but that didn't seem to me to be what that video was about. Then again, I'm not a LEO and don't play one on TV.

Where did you see "the aprehension in being alert and prepared"?

 

[ghostinthewood]

Attitude I got from this part of your post....

Typical nonsense where they lump everyone in the same bucket... "they are willing to kill." What are those signs? I bet they are constitution believe and gun ownership

What I took from that is that it doesn't sit well with you that "sovereign citizens" are being profiled. If I read that wrong then my apologies.

YouTube - Sovereign Citizens and Law Enforcement

The video is an awareness video of sorts about homegrown terrorists and the resurgance of them. Like I said, its the boring part of the video. Awareness always seems like a good idea to me. *shrug*

I dont get the DHS reference?

 

[henktermaat]

I dont get the DHS reference?

In the video He's basically warning LEOs to watch out for certain types of people. "They will KILL" You don't remember when DHS put out their list of people to watch out for? It was a huge stinky deal. Bible believers, people who say the constitution is good, guns owners, those who say govt. is too big... basically anyone moderately conservative.

I don't buy the nonsense that LEO life is somehow better than citizen life, which is what a lot of LEO believe. I watched a bunch of guys get disarmed recently "for officer safety" and one even got cuffed because he wouldn't obey an illegal order. The cops made them all un-holster their weapons on a crowded street and unload... which is way more dangerous to everyone involved than just leaving the firearms alone. This tells me it's not really about LEO safety, but control.

Now I'm not saying the guy in the video condones this kind of crackdown on innocent civilians, but his schpeel reminds me of DHS's report.

 

[henktermaat]

Attitude I got from this part of your post....

What I took from that is that it doesn't sit well with you that "sovereign citizens" are being profiled. If I read that wrong then my apologies.

YouTube - Sovereign Citizens and Law Enforcement

The video is an awareness video of sorts about homegrown terrorists and the resurgance of them. Like I said, its the boring part of the video. Awareness always seems like a good idea to me. *shrug*

I dont get the DHS reference?

As soon as I saw Jim Cavanaugh in the video, the man who murdered and burned innocent civilians at Waco, the bulb went on.

Read this:
Is ATF's Cavanaugh a credible SPLC spokesman? - National gun rights | Examiner.com

 

[ghostinthewood]

Yea. I would say I have some conservative ideals and I wasnt on said list. *shrug* Seems like a lot of people were butt hurt because they were being profiled for once.
Especially the "bible believer" stuffes. Most people in the government are Christians. I didnt buy in to the whining. (Assuming we're talking about the same list). On top of that, it was a list and for the most part it was just that. I'd bet money that a lot of those people supported the Patriot Act and lists of other fellows. However, thats neither nor there. These people, and the people that killed the police officers at the end of the video, fit the profile. Once again, lists and profiles are just there to get people to raise an eyebrow.

I understand the officer safet bit. I do know that there are a handful of cops that think only they should be armed and citizens shouldnt be, but I think thats a clear minority. Most of those unarming videos on youtube are provoked. Guys tote their guns aroung police officers and act like jerk offs with a camera. I get that. If you're referring to the police officers who disarm because they do think they're better than everyone, and only them, then being a reasonable person I'd have to agree. I think we're on the same page though.

Gut feelings and knee jerks arent always the best judges though eh? I think it was a reasonable video. He didnt say beat people down that are being jerk offs who think theyre above the law. He just said be aware.

Edit* Ok so he said some things that didnt make sense regarding what guns were where. I dont see how that changes what he said? I doubt he developed the profile. I'm sure he is just relaying information that was fed to him. I dont think who gives the profile makes it less true. lol

 

[henktermaat]

Gut feelings and knee jerks arent always the best judges though eh? I think it was a reasonable video. He didnt say beat people down that are being jerk offs who think theyre above the law. He just said be aware.

DHS was created for our safety. TSA groping and strip-searching? For our safety. Waco? For our safety. Those were "bad people" with "dangerous ideas."

It's all part of the game, and the video just moves cops in that direction, IMHO

And welcome to by the way

 

[ghostinthewood]

I didnt say everything is perfect eh? Haha. I mean if we're going to bring up the TSA lets update it to the body scans. I mean they havn't been out very long and you can find a ton of pics on google. As I've conceded in a previous post, I know things arent perfect. However, I think the point of the video, presenting this profile, is perfectly reasonable.

I think thats paranoia, assuming you're implying the government is a big evil monster out to eat our babies and shoot us with our own guns.

IFFFFF you're implying that over time, people with good intentions have warped parts of the government then I may drink your koolaid. However, the general vibe I get nowadays is the giant monster theory. I spose extremes make better tshirts though...

Thanks. Haha, i swear I"m not trying to be difficult off the bat.

 

[henktermaat]

I didnt say everything is perfect eh? Haha. I mean if we're going to bring up the TSA lets update it to the body scans. I mean they havn't been out very long and you can find a ton of pics on google. As I've conceded in a previous post, I know things arent perfect. However, I think the point of the video, presenting this profile, is perfectly reasonable.

I think thats paranoia, assuming you're implying the government is a big evil monster out to eat our babies and shoot our own guns.

IFFFFF you're implying that over time, people with good intentions have warped parts of the government then I may drink your koolaid. However, the general vibe I get nowadays is the giant monster theory. I spose extremes make better tshirts though...

You may have it a teeny bit backwards... The govt. is implying that on us.

Don't forget who works for whom here, and which party is running amok. Of course we voted 'em in, so I guess we deserver the treatment we get.

 

[ghostinthewood]

I dont think the government is a big evil monster. I think people have ambitions and want to change things for the better but when they get the power to do so, influences a lot of peolpe dont [care to] understand change and warp them. So they do things to try and help the country they love, but end up making it something it shouldntve been.

Oh c'mon, lets be reasonable. Our government has became what it is through time. Lets not be silly and blame everything on one party or administration. That kills and polarizes conversation and stops progress. If people actually care to make things for the better they'll take a breath, count to 10, and quit tackin on bumper stickers and actually talk to people who disagree and listen and level with them. However, that doesnt require chest puffing and arm flexing so I can see why it doesnt appeal to a lot of people. I do find it refreshing you referred to "we" instead of blaming one group and acting like you're better than anyone who disagrees with you.

 

[henktermaat]

I dont think the government is a big evil monster. I think people have ambitions and want to change things for the better but when they get the power to do so, influences a lot of peolpe dont [care to] understand change and warp them. So they do things to try and help the country they love, but end up making it something it shouldntve been.

Oh c'mon, lets be reasonable. Our government has became what it is through time. Lets not be silly and blame everything on one party or administration. That kills and polarizes conversation and stops progress. If people actually care to make things for the better they'll take a breath, count to 10, and quit tackin on bumper stickers and actually talk to people who disagree and listen and level with them. However, that doesnt require chest puffing and arm flexing so I can see why it doesnt appeal to a lot of people. I do find it refreshing you referred to "we" instead of blaming one group and acting like you're better than anyone who disagrees with you.

I blame everyone equally, that's for sure.

But no matter how it became what it is, it is currently an evil monster growing under it's own power, and needs to be cut back down to size. I'm not sure what you'd call "good" about our government, except for what they haven't done to us (yet).

I think we got off topic a little. I just smelled "us vs. them" in that video and it was really backed up strongly by your second video post. And I just wanted to express that, in case you hadn't thought along those lines yet.

 

[ghostinthewood]

I think its good that I have roads to get to my work, electricity and food a lot of other people dont have, leaders who aren't actually Hitler, Stalin, Che, etc. I like that our government attempts to learn lessons and occasionally does learn, they've deterred a couple of attacks now. I'm glad our military isn't THE government. I think we could be a lot worse, and we can be a hell ova lot better.

I dont think the point of the video was us vs. them. I think it was, watch your ass. As I mentioned before, I'm sure everyone here who carries a weapon on them acts a little different when they think someone is shady, but they don't pistol whip them just because they're shady. Its the same logic. Are there some police officers who will abuse that? Yea. However, if you want to truly take care of that problem then dont overract and bunch people in to one group. If we want to get more people on our level about issues such as these then we can't run around screaming its our way or the high way. Moderates get turned off to that. (read, people like me. I think I've displayed throughout this thread im super moderate =p).

 

[Prometheus]

YouTube - Officer Safety - West Memphis 2010 Shooting Incident

Logic would dictate that these "sovereigns" and "right wing extremists" have killed only a small fraction (34) of officers killed in the line of duty over the past 15 years.

In any event, it shows just how fast things can go to crap and the insanity that ensued in the parking lot where the minivan was finally stopped.

 

[rambone]

Its a very emotional and personal story to many. But we must not let our emotions carry us away. This incident spurred the West Memphis police department to tell their officers that they could stand outside a speeder's vehicle with an AR-15 at the ready.

I am not against giving police a rifle to keep in their car, to be used under reasonable suspicion that they will encounter violence. But I am against the idea of unholstered guns being brandished by police for every little traffic violation. Its a little too "Police State" for me.

There will always be bad guys, and there will always be tragedies. People shoot up schools - that does not mean that soldiers should patrol the hallways. Use your heads.

As I said in the other thread, what if civilians reacted this way because occasionally police make deadly mistakes, and because sometimes badguys impersonate police? What would happen if a driver being pulled over kept his pistol in his lap, and his passenger had an AR-15 "at the ready", just because they were reacting to an emotional story of a police encounter that went horribly wrong?

 

[rambone]

I threw up in my mouth a little bit when the chief tried to associate "right wingers" with these despicable murderers. Whats the difference when he does it or when Nancy Pelosi does it? When people do crazy things, it is no fault but their own. To try and demonize an ideology for some nutjobs' mistakes is a folly. It could be a religion or a political belief system.

 

[03mustgt]

Its a very emotional and personal story to many. But we must not let our emotions carry us away. This incident spurred the West Memphis police department to tell their officers that they could stand outside a speeder's vehicle with an AR-15 at the ready.

I am not against giving police a rifle to keep in their car, to be used under reasonable suspicion that they will encounter violence. But I am against the idea of unholstered guns being brandished by police for every little traffic violation. Its a little too "Police State" for me.

There will always be bad guys, and there will always be tragedies. People shoot up schools - that does not mean that soldiers should patrol the hallways. Use your heads.

As I said in the other thread, what if civilians reacted this way because occasionally police make deadly mistakes, and because sometimes badguys impersonate police? What would happen if a driver being pulled over kept his pistol in his lap, and his passenger had an AR-15 "at the ready", just because they were reacting to an emotional story of a police encounter that went horribly wrong?

lol,

They did not get an OK to get a patrol rifle out on just a speeder, they were given the ok to request an officer to standby with a patrol rifle behind their police car, most likely due to behavior and other indicators. Standing by, and actively deploying are two very different things. In no way, shape, or form did the brass ever state that the rifle would be pointed at someone for just a traffic infraction. Evil black rifle hypocrisy at its finest. If you can sling it and walk down the street legally with it, why cant I?

I dont see what the big deal is, IMO West Memphis is finally catching up to the times. Would a rifle have saved the lives of the two officers who were killed in the line of duty? No. It does however, give the responding officers a long gun to even the playing field.

Let's play a hypothetical situation here, what if the two officers had another unit standing by with patrol rifle ready. Would police officers had been killed still, probably, would the back up unit have a better chance at being able to stop the threat right then, compared to just using his sidearm, probably. Would have put a lot less civilians and LEO at risk.

No liberties are being sacrificed by this decision, and frankly I dont understand your viewpoint on this at all. It seems to me you are just complaining for the sake of it.

IMO every department should issue every officer a patrol rifle, shotgun, and sidearm.

 

[nawainwright]

lol,

They did not get an OK to get a patrol rifle out on just a speeder, they were given the ok to request an officer to standby with a patrol rifle behind their police car, most likely due to behavior and other indicators. Standing by, and actively deploying are two very different things. In no way, shape, or form did the brass ever state that the rifle would be pointed at someone for just a traffic infraction. Evil black rifle hypocrisy at its finest. If you can sling it and walk down the street legally with it, why cant I?

I dont see what the big deal is, IMO West Memphis is finally catching up to the times. Would a rifle have saved the lives of the two officers who were killed in the line of duty? No. It does however, give the responding officers a long gun to even the playing field.

Let's play a hypothetical situation here, what if the two officers had another unit standing by with patrol rifle ready. Would police officers had been killed still, probably, would the back up unit have a better chance at being able to stop the threat right then, compared to just using his sidearm, probably. Would have put a lot less civilians and LEO at risk.

No liberties are being sacrificed by this decision, and frankly I dont understand your viewpoint on this at all. It seems to me you are just complaining for the sake of it.

IMO every department should issue every officer a patrol rifle, shotgun, and sidearm.

Psh, by your logic why not put everyone who the police pull over in handcuffs so they can "respond better". Officers already have a sidearm on their person, a rifle/shotgun in their car, and half the time 3 other bored police cruisers behind them. Why not let every officer level a gun at someone who has committed a civil infraction, it makes sense to me. We can also let officers in SWAT gear wander the streets pointing firearms at pedestrians cause you never know "what those crazy people might do."

 

[03mustgt]

Psh, by your logic why not put everyone who the police pull over in handcuffs so they can "respond better". Officers already have a sidearm on their person, a rifle/shotgun in their car, and half the time 3 other bored police cruisers behind them. Why not let every officer level a gun at someone who has committed a civil infraction, it makes sense to me. We can also let officers in SWAT gear wander the streets pointing firearms at pedestrians cause you never know "what those crazy people might do."

Please show me where in my logic that I stated we should allow officers to wander the streets and point firearms at people? As a matter of fact please show me where in my post that I stated officers should be allowed to point guns at pedestrians, or civilians who have violated infractions? I await your response.