Views From a Coffe Shop

[jedi]

"Education/college degree" is the 21st century form of american slavery, plain and simple.

 

[Karl-just-Karl]

I read this awhile ago. I thought it was well written. I wish the majority of the younger generations would read and ponder this.

We have so much anger right now throughout the world, really. Especially here in America, I just don't get it. I get up in a conditioned home, drive a good enough car to a job, work, earn a paycheck. Then I come home, eat well and do "life".

Is my life perfect? I only wish. I, like others have my crosses to bare but I keep up with the journey.

No one outside of me really affects my life that much. President Trump hasn't caused me to significantly alter my life and neither did Obama when he sat in office for 8 years.

My .02.

What I see is continually trying to show me how my life isn't perfect and what I am supposed to aspire to. Fortunately I am not afflicted with Facebook envy or any of those other social media maladies.

Prime time TV and the evening news on broadcast TV show me all kinds of messages that are intended to make me feel like I am lacking or missing out. Easy solutions are sold every single commercial break. Happiness is just a phone card, website, or media-event away.

Without a strong foothold in some solid principles and a firm grasp on reality we can easily be swept away by the messages of what our lives aren't.

Young people are most susceptible to this. How long has the prime demographic been the 18-36 year old crowd? Experience has not yet taught them the things that are really important or to be appreciated. They seem to think everything is important and everything should be appreciated, I did when I was in my 20s. The bombardment that is taking place upon young people today can only be overwhelming in the best circumstances. They can have some sympathy from me, but I won't give them an excuse.

 

[ATOMonkey]

"Education/college degree" is the 21st century form of american slavery, plain and simple.

I'm going to have to call Butter Sticks on this one.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

I'm going to have to call Butter Sticks on this one.

Yeah there’s that whole choice conundrum that the slaves never had....

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Yeah there’s that whole choice conundrum that the slaves never had....

What about all those slaves that were forced to earn degrees in "Racial Sensitivity Studies"?

 

[HoughMade]

"Education/college degree" is the 21st century form of american slavery, plain and simple.

Only the kind you voluntarily sell yourself into. It doesn’t have to be. 25% of my kids have a bachelor degree debt free.

 

[Karl-just-Karl]

So wouldn't it be more like indentured servitude?

The indentured made a promise to someone making a profit off their efforts in return for the guarantee of a loan. At one time the "loan" was an exchange, services (goods transport, housing, food) for labor.

Maybe the anger should be directed toward those that made the false promises, those that portrayed a college degree as a road paved in gold. Get a college degree and you too can be like the people in the advertisement. You can appear well-rested, wearing safety goggles and a spotless lab-coat while staring at a beaker. Better yet, you can be attending a board meeting where you might be standing next to an easel presenting charts and graphs. Maybe you can stand over someone's shoulder who is seated at a computer while you point at the screen. Doesn't everyone who gets a college degree get a convertible Mercedes or Porsche and a penthouse or expansive loft apartment? Doesn't everyone get a supervisory position making the "big decisions" right out of school? Doesn't the college graduate get to head up the research and development team of the next big project, casting aside the senior employees that have thirty years plus of experience? Doesn't a college degree "increase your chances of success"? That's what I have heard for years. Well, so does buying a lottery ticket but it doesn't guarantee I will win.

I have worked in aerospace for a long time now. Seeing the youngsters coming in from college these days and hearing their stories is just one face-palm moment after another.

It usually takes three years for them to realize they were misled about the real world. At five years they have started to become bitter, jaded and resentful or they have learned the true path of gold is management and they have transformed themselves into a corporate tool.

The folks that have (and continue) to profit off the backs of America's next generation are the educational institutions that have pulled the wool over their eyes. Preparation starts in junior high with stories of college so the student body can be prepared for indoctrination during high-school college-prep courses while invoking fears of how low SAT/ACT scores may prevent them from being able to get into their institution of choice.

The easy/availability of student loans and grants makes money flow into colleges who then feel free to raise tuition rates that exacerbates the problem of the students, requiring more funding that puts more money into the system. Then more people can become introduced into the higher minded, morally superior thinking of the college graduate that elevates their belief in socialism that puts them above the ranks of the "uneducated and deplorable".

Meanwhile, this system of liberal-arts indoctrination and continual reinforcement from within is so strong and sanctimonious that the idiots they are producing don't even know how to use a hammer...but they sure know how to download apps and shop from their smart-phone!

Much like the liberal-infested cities that think they have a "raise the minimum wage" strategy out of poverty. No matter how much you raise the minimum wage, there will ALWAYS be someone at the bottom. At least until all the animals are created equal, just some more equals than other.

So the young people have been misled by the collegiate system that has been growing and feeding off itself for generations and has grown drunk on its own power and greed so much that everything has become threatened by its existence and no one can really do anything about it other than wait for the entire house of cards to collapse in upon itself.

It isn't slavery, it is brainwashing. It is about control emanating from a system that by serving its own principles feeding upon itself and causing its own destruction. Eventually everyone gets screwed over in the process, the whole arrangement falls apart and we have to start all over again. Welcome to civilization.

Did I miss anything? Oh, congratulations to those that survive the meat grinder and move on to become productive citizens in their own right and find some happiness during their brief time upon this world.

 

[ATOMonkey]

So wouldn't it be more like indentured servitude?

The indentured made a promise to someone making a profit off their efforts in return for the guarantee of a loan. At one time the "loan" was an exchange, services (goods transport, housing, food) for labor.

Maybe the anger should be directed toward those that made the false promises, those that portrayed a college degree as a road paved in gold. Get a college degree and you too can be like the people in the advertisement. You can appear well-rested, wearing safety goggles and a spotless lab-coat while staring at a beaker. Better yet, you can be attending a board meeting where you might be standing next to an easel presenting charts and graphs. Maybe you can stand over someone's shoulder who is seated at a computer while you point at the screen. Doesn't everyone who gets a college degree get a convertible Mercedes or Porsche and a penthouse or expansive loft apartment? Doesn't everyone get a supervisory position making the "big decisions" right out of school? Doesn't the college graduate get to head up the research and development team of the next big project, casting aside the senior employees that have thirty years plus of experience? Doesn't a college degree "increase your chances of success"? That's what I have heard for years. Well, so does buying a lottery ticket but it doesn't guarantee I will win.

I have worked in aerospace for a long time now. Seeing the youngsters coming in from college these days and hearing their stories is just one face-palm moment after another.

It usually takes three years for them to realize they were misled about the real world. At five years they have started to become bitter, jaded and resentful or they have learned the true path of gold is management and they have transformed themselves into a corporate tool.

The folks that have (and continue) to profit off the backs of America's next generation are the educational institutions that have pulled the wool over their eyes. Preparation starts in junior high with stories of college so the student body can be prepared for indoctrination during high-school college-prep courses while invoking fears of how low SAT/ACT scores may prevent them from being able to get into their institution of choice.

The easy/availability of student loans and grants makes money flow into colleges who then feel free to raise tuition rates that exacerbates the problem of the students, requiring more funding that puts more money into the system. Then more people can become introduced into the higher minded, morally superior thinking of the college graduate that elevates their belief in socialism that puts them above the ranks of the "uneducated and deplorable".

Meanwhile, this system of liberal-arts indoctrination and continual reinforcement from within is so strong and sanctimonious that the idiots they are producing don't even know how to use a hammer...but they sure know how to download apps and shop from their smart-phone!

Much like the liberal-infested cities that think they have a "raise the minimum wage" strategy out of poverty. No matter how much you raise the minimum wage, there will ALWAYS be someone at the bottom. At least until all the animals are created equal, just some more equals than other.

So the young people have been misled by the collegiate system that has been growing and feeding off itself for generations and has grown drunk on its own power and greed so much that everything has become threatened by its existence and no one can really do anything about it other than wait for the entire house of cards to collapse in upon itself.

It isn't slavery, it is brainwashing. It is about control emanating from a system that by serving its own principles feeding upon itself and causing its own destruction. Eventually everyone gets screwed over in the process, the whole arrangement falls apart and we have to start all over again. Welcome to civilization.

Did I miss anything? Oh, congratulations to those that survive the meat grinder and move on to become productive citizens in their own right and find some happiness during their brief time upon this world.

Maybe it's just me, but I never go into anything without my eyes wide open.

When I selected my degree, I already knew what the job market was for that degree, the average starting salary, and what my debt payments would be. One of the reasons I chose mechanical engineering over Aeronautical (which is what I really wanted) is that the market for Aero is much smaller than the market for mechanical.

It boggles me that everyone doesn't use what seems to be a pretty common sense decision making process. Count the cost.

I also knew I wanted a desk job, because I had spent enough time laboring to know that, while rewarding and low investment cost, was REALLY hard. Laboring also had a ceiling unless I wanted to start my own company.

When I bought my house, in 2005, I could have doubled the amount I borrowed with some clever financial wrangling. Aren't I glad I didn't 3 years later. Why? Because I did my homework. What happens if the rate on my short term ARM doubles or triples in a down market? What if I need to sell my house? etc.

As P.T. Barnum may or may not have said, "There's a sucker born every minute."

 

[Ingomike]

Maybe it's just me, but I never go into anything without my eyes wide open.

When I selected my degree, I already knew what the job market was for that degree, the average starting salary, and what my debt payments would be. One of the reasons I chose mechanical engineering over Aeronautical (which is what I really wanted) is that the market for Aero is much smaller than the market for mechanical.

It boggles me that everyone doesn't use what seems to be a pretty common sense decision making process. Count the cost.

I also knew I wanted a desk job, because I had spent enough time laboring to know that, while rewarding and low investment cost, was REALLY hard. Laboring also had a ceiling unless I wanted to start my own company.

When I bought my house, in 2005, I could have doubled the amount I borrowed with some clever financial wrangling. Aren't I glad I didn't 3 years later. Why? Because I did my homework. What happens if the rate on my short term ARM doubles or triples in a down market? What if I need to sell my house? etc.

As P.T. Barnum may or may not have said, "There's a sucker born every minute."

I think the biggest part of the problem is that what Karl described is being done with our money via the government. Congratulations to you, but Just how many high school kids, and their parents for that matter, can see all that through the fog of school and media indoctrination? So yes, they are suckers but we suckered them...

 

[Karl-just-Karl]

With some mild apologies, my ranting light must be "on"...

I am not certain that the phenomenon we are encountering is just from a very vocal minority with a very large stage and and a very loud bullhorn (aka internet) or the onset of mid-life paranoia from an aging generation in decline.

What society is dependent upon is the next generation being able to take the baton and continue this whole conveyor-belt process. Time doesn't stop for anyone and it certainly doesn't go backward. I believe the old-fashioned people (like myself), just don't understand the world we see changing around us, just like every generation before.

The young folks only know the world from their own experience and their own perspective. That is the joy of youth, discovering the world around you. What the old folks are trying to point out is that they survived several traps. That's how they got to be old folks. Based upon their experiences (avoiding traps successfully) they/we/I just want to pass along the warning that the path that is being laid out for young folks today is more precarious, more dangerous and more littered with traps and snares than ever before.

There should be no mass condemnation of youth just as there should be no discounting of the experience of the elders.

The current progressive idealism has its own cult following that seem to be growing these days at an exponential rate and it appears to be coming at the cost of what the founders thought was the greatest (if not also the most dangerous) gift from God, the gift of individual choice, liberty and freedom.

Religious folks are most wary of the down-side of choice and they see the paths that are being laid out that lead to ruin (hedonism and the focus on self).

There are politicians that listen to the people and are voicing their concerns over the current state of politics, but the train is moving on anyway. It would seem at times that it is more like careening wildly out of control.

The world that the children of today will inherit tomorrow is the exact same world, there is only one. Gretta is correct about that. But the precedent that we set today is also what we leave as an inheritance and a legacy to the future. The founders knew this and we lived (as a society) pretty well off of it for several generations. With exceptions of course, that is a separate dissertation. As a nation we have done pretty well, even the poorest of the poor, but things are undeniably changing at an increasing rate.

Is it paranoia? No. Is it the fault of young people? No. Is assigning fault and pointing fingers going to fix things? No.

What is going to fix things? The individual awakening of each one of us. Regaining an awareness of the reality that is around us. I'm not referring to a news feed on the internet. I'm talking about the awareness of the reality that takes place around us that is no farther that a rifle shot. We can easily get lost in the world of our imagination that allows us to travel to distant places at the speed of thought, but the most important space is no more distant than a few hundred yards at most and is frequently far, far closer than that.

That's why I enjoy firearms. That is why I am here. This stuff is for real y'all.

 

[ATOMonkey]

I think the biggest part of the problem is that what Karl described is being done with our money via the government. Congratulations to you, but Just how many high school kids, and their parents for that matter, can see all that through the fog of school and media indoctrination? So yes, they are suckers but we suckered them...

If people can't do basic arithmetic to figure out that a $250,000 loan being serviced by a $40,000 income is a bad idea, then they get what they deserve.

 

[Karl-just-Karl]

If people can't do basic arithmetic to figure out that a $250,000 loan being serviced by a $40,000 income is a bad idea, then they get what they deserve.

To each is given what is earned (good or bad) but...

The offense is that the rest of us get to deal with it.

The rest of us have to hear story after story about how unfair things are.

The rest of us get to shoulder the financial burden. Where did those government secured loans come from?

The rest of us, society as a whole, gets to suffer from this untenable condition.

 

[HoughMade]

If people can't do basic arithmetic to figure out that a $250,000 loan being serviced by a $40,000 income is a bad idea, then they get what they deserve.

Agreed.

It's laziness.

I have a little experience with the way the process works, 1 kid a college grad, another is a college sophomore.

We fill out the FAFSA every year...because the schools require it. We know that we will not see any aid, which is fine with me...philosophically.

When the FAFSA "award" info comes from the school, they inform you that the total cost is X, scholarship is Y and you have been "awarded" a federally insured loan equalling X-Y.

IF YOU DO NOTHING, THE LOAN WILL BE APPLIED TO YOUR ACCOUNT. you have to actively REJECT the loan, action is not required to accept it.

It's too easy. It's lazy. It's fake, invisible money that allows you to do what you want right up until the time it's not.

Many of these parents carry balances on their credit cards because they NEEDED the new TV and HAD to take that vacation. They drive cars they will never own because "what would the neighbors think". They live in houses that cost more than millionaires lived in a generation ago. They pledge nearly every cent they make to a creditor before they get their paycheck, THEN they complain that there is no possible way kids can pay for college.

I get it, college is more expensive than it should be. No argument. So this came as a surprise?

 

[ATOMonkey]

To each is given what is earned (good or bad) but...

The offense is that the rest of us get to deal with it.

The rest of us have to hear story after story about how unfair things are.

The rest of us get to shoulder the financial burden. Where did those government secured loans come from?

The rest of us, society as a whole, gets to suffer from this untenable condition.

I'm all for ending any new Federal Student loans. Anytime the government gets involved in banking, the people suffer.

 

[Ingomike]

If people can't do basic arithmetic to figure out that a $250,000 loan being serviced by a $40,000 income is a bad idea, then they get what they deserve.

I'm just cannot fully agree with you. I do in principle, but when virtually every advisory influence in their lives tell them this is the path to happiness, success, and security and then the supposed adults are making it all work for them, just where are they supposed to learn this? Where did you learn this? No one goes in and borrows $250k it is a little at a time...

 

[ATOMonkey]

I'm just cannot fully agree with you. I do in principle, but when virtually every advisory influence in their lives tell them this is the path to happiness, success, and security and then the supposed adults are making it all work for them, just where are they supposed to learn this? Where did you learn this? No one goes in and borrows $250k it is a little at a time...

First, every college will proudly tell how how expensive they are in brochures and on their website and everything else.

Second, when you fill out the FAFSA, it tells you how much you get to pay.

Third, when you sit down at the Financial assistance office at the college you want to attend, they tell you how much they're willing to knock off.

Then you can easily look up average salaries for your line of work. Or better yet, you can just talk to people in that line of work and see how much they make.

They even offer online calculators to figure out what your payements will be and how long you'll have to make them. Literally nothing is hidden.

The only thing you have to watch out for is your own avarice, and the stupid assumption that things will just magically work themselves out in the future.

 

[Leadeye]

This has worked it's way into businesses outside of the education/industrial complex. Many times I have witnessed corporate HR specify a college degree for a position that could be better filled by promoting someone familiar with a process directly from manufacturing. I watched a customer's HR step over a well qualified candidate for a quality position to hire someone known widely in the industry as a train wreck because of the insistence on a degree. The result was a predictable and costly disaster.

 

[Phase2]

First, every college will proudly tell how how expensive they are in brochures and on their website and everything else.

Second, when you fill out the FAFSA, it tells you how much you get to pay.

Third, when you sit down at the Financial assistance office at the college you want to attend, they tell you how much they're willing to knock off.

Then you can easily look up average salaries for your line of work. Or better yet, you can just talk to people in that line of work and see how much they make.

They even offer online calculators to figure out what your payements will be and how long you'll have to make them. Literally nothing is hidden.

The only thing you have to watch out for is your own avarice, and the stupid assumption that things will just magically work themselves out in the future.

I understand your point, but I'll go with Ingomike on this. The bulk of our current students are being taught PC culture rather than math and personal finance. They've been sold a bill of goods that going to college is what you must do to succeed in life. They aren't being pointed towards the analysis process you outlined, which is effectively the same as hiding it. Most of them haven't a clue that they should do it, let alone have the skills.

 

[ATOMonkey]

Back when I was a young buck, I was looking at basically 2 colleges, Purdue and Rose-Hulman. Purdue was about $9k a year, Rose was $25k a year. I told the Rose people that I could swing $10k to go there, or I could take my $9k to Purdue. Low and behold they found the money... $15k in financial assistance from the college itself. Plus a work study and some other scholarships. Ta da!!! I graduated with about $20k in debt and my starting salary was the, as calculated and researched, $50k. It was a 30 year term at 2.5% I think.

 

[ATOMonkey]

I understand your point, but I'll go with Ingomike on this. The bulk of our current students are being taught PC culture rather than math and personal finance. They've been sold a bill of goods that going to college is what you must do to succeed in life. They aren't being pointed towards the analysis process you outlined, which is effectively the same as hiding it. Most of them haven't a clue that they should do it, let alone have the skills.

Bull spit. My son is in 6th grade and just learned how to calculate interest on a loan. No one is being "sold" anything. They're hearing what they want to hear. It's all confirmation bias, "I want to go to college, and teacher says I should go to college, so I'm going to college."

People sell themselves on the idea that a degree fixes everything. I have a nephew that wants to get this Master's degree. I asked him why and he says, "because I like to learn" or some such garbage. I asked him how he's going to pay for it, and he's more than happy, delighted even, to just be fully and willfully ignorant of that. He does't like his job, so his solution is to go back to college, because that is where he had fun. He definitely doesn't want to hear anything about how money is going to get in his way of being a professional student.

Again, the people the lying to themselves. They hear what they want to hear. They want to hear that the world is easy and fun and you don't have to worry about how you will make ends meet. It all just "works out."

It's laziness pure and simple.