Volkswagen may use Ford's U.S. plants to build cars

[Nevermore]

My family tried to buy American when I was little, but in the end it was the Honda Accord and then the Toyota Prius that replaced it that managed to actually give us good value on the money. At this point the only way I take a Big 3 vehicle is if it's free, otherwise gimme another Prius.

 

[NyleRN]

They could just use some of GM's plants. I hear a few of them are available

 

[ghuns]

My biggest beef with US made cars and trucks is they want a premium price a marginally adequet product. My dad has a 2005 Chevy truck. He bought it in 2015 with 20K miles on it from a dealer in southern Indiana. It was a local trade in. It now has about 30K on it. The interior is faded so it looks like about three different colors. Every brake line has rotted off it. The undercoating is 100% gone. The whole underside of the truck looks much worse than my 1997 Chevy. The heating/AC controls are all jacked up. The transfer case will probably fail, as most of them from that vintage do. It has a weird clunking noise in the steering that won't go away. The only thing good about is the 6.0L engine, as long as you mind putting gas in it and a few drops of oil on the garage floor.

While not apples to apples, my daughter's 2004 Toyota Sequoia, at nearly 200K, all of it in the great white North, still has all it's original brake lines. Still looks great inside, outside, and underneath. The engine is dryer than popcorn fart. It has literally never leaked a drop of anything. It has never required any repair outside of normal maintenance.

How hard is it to put a brake line on a vehicle that doesn't turn to dust? How much cost does it add to make valve cover and oil pan gaskets that don't leak?

I had several GM vehicles that were great. A couple 90s Bonnevilles, a Regal, a S10, a Suburban. I still own a 97 Chevy truck that doesn't suck. But the last two new vehicles we bought were GM minivans. They were flaming piles of dog s**t on wheels. When we got rid of the last one, I swore that was it.

Then I went to work for a company that primarily serves the auto industry. Now I REALLY swear I'm done "buying American".



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[Route 45]

1988 Pontiac 6000, traded at 122,000 miles- It was 1998 and I had just become a lawyer....10 year old car for a new lawyer? But that was a great car.

Great car? I'm sorry, man. This tells me all I need to know about your opinion regarding vehicle quality.
I've owned a couple of late 80's model GM vehicles. Junk. Period.

If you like foreign manufacturers, I get it and that makes sense because before recently, domestics (especially Chrysler) could be hit and miss. However, in the last 10 years, durability, reliability, etc.- from Kia to Honda to Cadillac, it's really a pick 'em.

For anything other than full size trucks...no. Just no.

I know a guy in auto finance at a dealership here in Indy, and he is familiar with the ratings that the various manufacturers get for extended warranties. Hyundai, Toyota, Honda and Subaru are all "A" rated, and their extended warranties are thus less expensive. I mentioned Chrysler to him and he chuckled and said, "Yeah, they get a D."

I'll take the word of the guys who bet real dollars on it over anyone who is impressed with a 1988 Pontiac.

 

[2Lucky]

By 2020 Ford says that only 10% of vehicles will be cars. More profit in suv's and trucks.......

 

[Colt]

But the last two new vehicles we bought were GM minivans. They were flaming piles of dog s**t on wheels. When we got rid of the last one, I swore that was it.

Most of my cars have been GM and have had good luck with them. My 2005 Chevy Venture Van just keeps going and going with very little maintenance. Despite a whole lot of abuse and 170K miles, the exterior and interior even still look good. We are on a vacation right now with it. I would buy another one if Chevy made it. They market minivans to growing families, but my wife and I are empty nesters and find a minivan more practical than a truck or SUV for vacations, hunting, and general utility. I value the internal volume which is far higher than a truck or SUV. I have been studying the Toyota Sienna and the Chrysler Pacifica as a replacement, but would rather buy another 2005 Chevy Venture if it were available.

 

[DRob]

By 2020 Ford says that only 10% of vehicles will be cars. More profit in suv's and trucks.......

Drive by a Ford dealer and just look at what's on their lot. Tons of trucks and SUVs, darned few sedans or coupes, fewer Mustangs. I am having a very good experience so far with a 2015 F150 and foresee no issues. A buddy bought an F150 shortly after I got mine. At that time, the dealer had over 100 of them on the lot. Guess what they're selling.

Everybody can give you an example of a bad or good experience with (insert make/model here). And, everybody has a pre-conceived notion about what is and isn't a good vehicle. I don't care about yours. I'll stick with mine, thanks.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

They could just use some of GM's plants. I hear a few of them are available

That's mentioned in the article.

 

[rob63]

I grew up in an area where just about everybody we knew worked at a GM plant, so it was taken for granted that you drove a GM product. My first job after college was working for GM. I naturally maintained the GM tradition throughout my adult life. 10 years ago it dawned on me that GM had closed all of the plants that my friends and relatives used to work at and moved the jobs to Mexico. Meanwhile, Honda had built a plant in Indiana. Consequently, we bought a Honda Accord in 2009. I will never, EVER, buy another automobile from an American corporation.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I grew up in an area where just about everybody we knew worked at a GM plant, so it was taken for granted that you drove a GM product. My first job after college was working for GM. I naturally maintained the GM tradition throughout my adult life. 10 years ago it dawned on me that GM had closed all of the plants that my friends and relatives used to work at and moved the jobs to Mexico. Meanwhile, Honda had built a plant in Indiana. Consequently, we bought a Honda Accord in 2009. I will never, EVER, buy another automobile from an American corporation.

There's still more GM plants in Indiana than Honda or Toyota, if I'm remembering correctly.

 

[rob63]

There's still more GM plants in Indiana than Honda or Toyota, if I'm remembering correctly.

That may well be true, but the worm has turned regardless. I'm not going back after seeing how good a car can be.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

That may well be true, but the worm has turned regardless. I'm not going back after seeing how good a car can be.

That's a different reason for switching than the one you stated. But OK.

 

[PaulF]

I grew up in an area where just about everybody we knew worked at a GM plant, so it was taken for granted that you drove a GM product. My first job after college was working for GM. I naturally maintained the GM tradition throughout my adult life. 10 years ago it dawned on me that GM had closed all of the plants that my friends and relatives used to work at and moved the jobs to Mexico. Meanwhile, Honda had built a plant in Indiana. Consequently, we bought a Honda Accord in 2009. I will never, EVER, buy another automobile from an American corporation.

What even is an American Company anymore? Everything is publicly traded and owned by anyone with a computer. Hedge funds, mutual funds, endowments...all purchased or funded by anyone with the capital to buy in. I'll bet there are a fair number of wealthy Chinese, Japanese, German, Indian, and Russian players cozied up to the bar with our traditional American investor.

Couple with that the fact that the modern automotive industry is heavily vendor-driven. That Ford has the same ABS system as that Honda or VW. Same goes for the engine management system. Vendors design entire automotive systems, including the framework to modify and produce these systems. The Automotive "Manufacturer" has become little more than a design, assembly, and marketing house, packaging other company's engineering into a final product they believe their consumer will buy. I think we are beginning to see the end of the "assembly" part of the manufacturer's mission, too. It is becoming ever more common to outsource major assembly to third-party vendors.

The VW Passat and Atlas are builtin Tennessee. The Jetta, Tiguan, and Golf are built in Mexico. German what?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

What even is an American Company anymore? Everything is publicly traded and owned by anyone with a computer. Hedge funds, mutual funds, endowments...all purchased or funded by anyone with the capital to buy in. I'll bet there are a fair number of wealthy Chinese, Japanese, German, Indian, and Russian players cozied up to the bar with our traditional American investor.

Couple with that the fact that the modern automotive industry is heavily vendor-driven. That Ford has the same ABS system as that Honda or VW. Same goes for the engine management system. Vendors design entire automotive systems, including the framework to modify and produce these systems. The Automotive "Manufacturer" has become little more than a design, assembly, and marketing house, packaging other company's engineering into a final product they believe their consumer will buy. I think we are beginning to see the end of the "assembly" part of the manufacturer's mission, too. It is becoming ever more common to outsource major assembly to third-party vendors.

The VW Passat and Atlas are builtin Tennessee. The Jetta, Tiguan, and Golf are built in Mexico. German what?

There was a time in the 20th century when car manufacturers were extremely vertically integrated. They built everything (practically) that was needed to build their cars. As you allude, today they will build key components where they either have special expertise/equipment or they want to control the cost. The plant where I'm at is here specifically to control the costs of certain components that other, non-allied manufacturers can make as well but will jack up prices for once they have all of the business. They will always trade off costs and benefits when it comes to building components and sub assemblies in house vs an outside vendor.

 

[jd4320t]

There's still more GM plants in Indiana than Honda or Toyota, if I'm remembering correctly.

Which ones are left? I know the truck plant in Ft. Wayne is still there.

 

[HoughMade]

...I'll take the word of the guys who bet real dollars on it over anyone who is impressed with a 1988 Pontiac.

So you owned my '88 Pontiac that never had anything go wrong with it after I did?

It's anecdotal, but my experience is my experience and is pretty consistent. I have never seen a reliability advantage on a well maintained vehicle that justified the price premium of a Honda, for instance, to me. I generally consider them, but have never bought one because whatever the advantages are, I will be giving up equipment, year or miles to pay the same price. Normally, my regular cars, I do not keep for 200,000 miles and if you do, maybe the price makes sense. At, say, 150,000 miles and under? Nope. BTW- both buying new and extended warranties are sucker's bets.

 

[femurphy77]

It's not that people don't want small cars, its that American car companies cannot compete with the majority of the foreign market. There is not any real money in it when you have American car manufacturing expenses vs those that the foreign car companies have brought over with them.

American car companies want their sales high dollar, rivaling what home sales were just years ago. It becomes very forgiving when people become used to living their whole life with a continual monthly vehicle payment. Compared to a vehicle that will be paid off free and clear in a short few years, to let them understand living without that regular payment.

This one hit home; I took on my first car payment in 20 plus years a few months ago. OUCH. I guess I should have just calculated in a lifetime car payment many moons ago and I'd have been o.k.

 

[joe138]

Which ones are left? I know the truck plant in Ft. Wayne is still there.

Bedford - GM Central Foundry

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Which ones are left? I know the truck plant in Ft. Wayne is still there.

The casting plant in Bedford, the stamping plant in Marion (I think that's the town), Ft Wayne, and if you count the Kokomo plant (it was part of Delphi but I think GM took it back over but I could be off on that).

Chrysler has two plants in Indiana that I know of. They are up in Kokomo too.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Bedford - GM Central Foundry

Dude, that's like two name changes ago.