Wait for the cops and risk trespassing or leave as requested?

[38special]

So as I ate in the mall today I thought about a "what if" situation. Here goes:

You're walking around the mall and suddenly you notice someone robbing one of the jewelry stores, armed. You draw your pistol, telling the would-be robber he needs to put his gun down NOW or you'll shoot. He begins to turn the gun on you, and you fire.

Ok, at this point someone is calling the police or you should be. A security guard or mall representative comes up to you, explains to you that you're not allowed to have a gun on mall property and asks you to leave the premises.

What do you do? Do you stay and wait for the cops, risking trespass or leave and call the police? Can you even be charged with trespass after this?

 

[shibumiseeker]

You were just involved in a shooting, the mall security is not going to ask you to leave.

But let's say that you hypothetically are asked, you have 2 options, assuming the criminal is down or gone. One is that you can await the police outside, or you can await the police inside. Me, I'm not going to leave the scene. The likelyhood of being charged with criminal trespass in that situation is virtually zero.

 

[Eddie]

You were just involved in a shooting, the mall security is not going to ask you to leave.

But let's say that you hypothetically are asked, you have 2 options, assuming the criminal is down or gone. One is that you can await the police outside, or you can await the police inside. Me, I'm not going to leave the scene. The likelyhood of being charged with criminal trespass in that situation is virtually zero.

I agree. This is the right answer.

 

[PatMcGroyne]

Duuh! How could I have missed.....

....the "Constitutional Rights are not valid in this Mall" sign on their doors!! ??

 

[Eddie]

You might also calmly look at the mall cop, calmly look down at the guy you just shot and then calmly look back at the mall cop.

 

[SKSnut]

You were just involved in a shooting, the mall security is not going to ask you to leave.

But let's say that you hypothetically are asked, you have 2 options, assuming the criminal is down or gone. One is that you can await the police outside, or you can await the police inside. Me, I'm not going to leave the scene. The likelyhood of being charged with criminal trespass in that situation is virtually zero.

exactly

 

[SigSense]

Don't take this the wrong way, but you didn't write that you were in danger, merely a witness. Or in your example were you SUPPOSED to be in grave danger?

 

[Donnelly]

He begins to turn the gun on you

I would consider myself in grave danger at this point. I'm certainly not waiting for him to start shooting first!

 

[JohnP82]

You were just involved in a shooting, the mall security is not going to ask you to leave.

But let's say that you hypothetically are asked, you have 2 options, assuming the criminal is down or gone. One is that you can await the police outside, or you can await the police inside. Me, I'm not going to leave the scene. The likelyhood of being charged with criminal trespass in that situation is virtually zero.

 

[rambone]

You don't want to flee after an event like that. Call your lawyer.

 

[dburkhead]

Don't take this the wrong way, but you didn't write that you were in danger, merely a witness. Or in your example were you SUPPOSED to be in grave danger?

Per Indiana law you (the person performing the defensive shooting) don't have to be in grave danger. Just some innocent person needs to be in grave danger. Once the BG begins pointing a gun at people in the course of a robbery any law abiding person has the legal authority at that point to take him down.

(NB: this explanation is a bit oversimplistic but I believe it covers the high points.)

 

[littletommy]

If you have just shot someone, a mall cop will probably be in the nearest restroom changing his soiled underpants, and not of concern to you. I would stay put.

 

[38special]

(NB: this explanation is a bit oversimplistic but I believe it covers the high points.)

Covers the glocks and S&W's too. Sorry - had to!

Now, so as not to threadjack my own thread:

I realize that it's not likely to happen that they'd ask you to leave. I'm also not likely to come upon this situation. Just thought it was an interesting "what if".

I'm not about to leave the scene, personally. I'd rather take a trespass charge if necessary. Theoretically though, could they charge you with trespassing?

Also, I am with dburkhead and my "what if" was written accordingly. In this situation, I'd draw on the person because I fear for the life of a fellow citizin under Castle Law. If I feel like they are in grave danger or risk of great bodily harm, I have a right to protect them with whatever force necessary, and personally I will do so.

 

[Glock Lover]

yeah this didn't make a whole lot of sense. New scenario.

 

[.30 Cal Al]

Hi

Also: In Indiana, if you're witnessing a felony (such as someone pointing a firearm at people, for instance :-) ) or a breach-of-the-peace misdemeanor, or have knowledge of someone committing a felony, you're allowed to place the individual under Citizens' Arrest, which is just as binding on them as anything a policeman... police person... POLICE OFFICER could do.

As such, I'd have an initial go at the guy, arresting him in my very best Forceful Cop voice, but otherwise, as #2 above.

 

[AndersonIN]

I would suggest going down to the coin operated horse and ride it into the sunset! LOL

 

[AFA1CY]

A security guard or mall representative comes up to you, explains to you that you're not allowed to have a gun on mall property and asks you to leave the premises.

Herein lies the flaw in your logic. A mall security guard would not walk up to you as he would be too busy in the restroom trying to remove the brown streak from his pants....

 

[SigSense]

I would consider myself in grave danger at this point. I'm certainly not waiting for him to start shooting first!

I 100% agree with you, HOWEVER.......before the BG turned the weapon this occurred according to the OP:

You're walking around the mall and suddenly you notice someone robbing one of the jewelry stores, armed. You draw your pistol, telling the would-be robber he needs to put his gun down NOW or you'll shoot.

So the scenario as provided is that you WITNESS the robbery FIRST, then INSERT yourself INTO the situation. See what I mean?

*I have personally been witness to all kinds of crap occurring in my armed presence, but EXITED the scene, as I was NOT in grave danger. Could I have drawn my weapon and done something? Sure. Was there a possibility that someone would have been injured/killed? Sure.

 

[dburkhead]

I 100% agree with you, HOWEVER.......before the BG turned the weapon this occurred according to the OP:

You're walking around the mall and suddenly you notice someone robbing one of the jewelry stores, armed. You draw your pistol, telling the would-be robber he needs to put his gun down NOW or you'll shoot.

So the scenario as provided is that you WITNESS the robbery FIRST, then INSERT yourself INTO the situation. See what I mean?

*I have personally been witness to all kinds of crap occurring in my armed presence, but EXITED the scene, as I was NOT in grave danger. Could I have drawn my weapon and done something? Sure. Was there a possibility that someone would have been injured/killed? Sure.

"The only thing required for Evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke.

 

[FordMan08]

Tell the mall cop to go back to Spencers while you deal with the police.