War on terror to last another 20 years

[ZombieApocolypse]

That certainly seems to be one of their main excuses. But if we are going back, how about the Barbary Pirates. They were throwing stones at us just as we were being founded and Israel didn't exist. They saw it as their right since we are all kaffir.

I'd never heard of them pirates, but i've learned they were the reason for the creation of the Navy.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I'd never heard of them pirates, but i've learned they were the reason for the creation of the Navy.

They were really nice folks, too. One of their favorite amusements was taking sailors captured from our merchant ships (who were guilty only of trying to sail across the Med in peace), running them through with hooks, and hanging them over the city walls to die a most agonizing death. As evidenced by more recent behavior like what they did to Daniel Pearl and the incident at Fallujah, it would appear that they haven't changed much.

 

[hornadylnl]

They were really nice folks, too. One of their favorite amusements was taking sailors captured from our merchant ships (who were guilty only of trying to sail across the Med in peace), running them through with hooks, and hanging them over the city walls to die a most agonizing death. As evidenced by more recent behavior like what they did to Daniel Pearl and the incident at Fallujah, it would appear that they haven't changed much.

So we're able to keep scores on past atrocities now?

 

[badwolf.usmc]

I'd never heard of them pirates, but i've learned they were the reason for the creation of the Navy.

Every heard of the quote "A million dollars for defense but not a cent for tribute."? That was said because of those pirates.

 

[Expat]

I'd never heard of them pirates, but i've learned they were the reason for the creation of the Navy.

Every heard of the quote "A million dollars for defense but not a cent for tribute."? That was said because of those pirates.

Have badwolf sing the Marine Corps Hymn for you, it has a reference to our fighting them back then.

 

[88GT]

What is the tenth century Alex... Holy Wars for a thousand please.

LOL, talk about an inconvenient truth.

They were at war with us long before we accepted that fact. Remember the WTC 1 bombing, USS Cole, etc. It will be going on much longer than another 20 years, unless the world ends before that.

There have always been nutjobs, and there will always be nutjobs. We cannot stay in a perpetual state of war to try and avoid this.

If we do not, we will be in a perpetual state of war responding to it. Take your pick.

I think it goes back much further than the 1990's, but as to whom threw the first stone .... Would it be our involvement in making Israel exist?

"Our" involvement in making Israel exist? What exactly would that have been? The vote for the U.N. resolution to make a two-state entity out of what was once British Palestine?

Israel exists because the Palestinian Arabs and the Arab countries nearby rejected the partition plan. Their attempt to take all of Palestine resulted in them getting none of it. Sux to be them.

Can we have a sticky for how the state of Israel came to be?

 

[IndyDave1776]

So we're able to keep scores on past atrocities now?

Keeping score is irrelevant. My point is that these people have a history of being trouble and have not evolved as a society since approximately 700 AD, and have made it perfectly clear that they have no intention of doing so. Consequently, applying the cultural standards of twenty-first century America or Europe is boneheaded stupid and will not yield any useful results. If barbarism is the cultural standard some people choose, they are entitled to their own views. They are not, however, entitled to be considered civilized people when they routinely prove otherwise. I would also point out that when they replace a 'corrupt' and 'brutal' regime, they do so with another which is generally worse albeit with a different focus of its barbarism. In the event of an American Spring occurring, I rather doubt that we would do likewise. I would consider a return to the Constitution much more likely in the end of such an eventuality. Just a difference in people who value liberty and those who consider a system based on submission a religious duty.

 

[HenryWallace]

If we do not, we will be in a perpetual state of war responding to it. Take your pick.

I'd say end the war on Terrorism... Because we've got so many more things to be afraid of...

We noted in 2011:

– You are 17,600 times more likely to die from heart disease than from a terrorist attack
– You are 12,571 times more likely to die from cancer than from a terrorist attack
— You are 11,000 times more likely to die in an airplane accident than from a terrorist plot involving an airplane
— You are 1048 times more likely to die from a car accident than from a terrorist attack
–You are 404 times more likely to die in a fall than from a terrorist attack
— You are 87 times more likely to drown than die in a terrorist attack
– You are 13 times more likely to die in a railway accident than from a terrorist attack
–You are 12 times more likely to die from accidental suffocation in bed than from a terrorist attack
–You are 9 times more likely to choke to death on your own vomit than die in a terrorist attack
–You are 8 times more likely to be killed by a police officer than by a terrorist
–You are 8 times more likely to die from accidental electrocution than from a terrorist attack
– You are 6 times more likely to die from hot weather than from a terrorist attack




Comparing the CDC numbers to terrorism deaths means:

– You are 35,079 times more likely to die from heart disease than from a terrorist attack
– You are 33,842 times more likely to die from cancer than from a terrorist attack

If the risk of being killed by a terrorist were added to the list, the dot would be so small that it would be hard to see. Specifically, the risk of being killed by terrorism in 2008 was 14 times smaller than being killed by fireworks.
​

 

[rambone]

Am I guilty because of the sins of my ancestors? Are "Moslems" guilty because of piracy that took place 200 years ago?

All the participants of the conflict between the United States and the Barbary Pirates have been dead for a couple hundred years. Constantly bringing this stuff up in order to demonize your cultural rivals is illogical.

Its like saying Americans have always been tyrants because of their enslavement of Africans and their genocide of Native American tribes. Is that fair to place on your heads?

Which brings me to this next point. What were many of the American ships doing floating around the African coast in the 1700-1800's? That's right, they were CAPTURING THEIR OWN SLAVES.

There were no innocent "sides", only innocent individuals. Piracy wasn't restricted to one region of the world or one cultural background.

 

[hornadylnl]

Am I guilty because of the sins of my ancestors? Are "Moslems" guilty because of piracy that took place 200 years ago?

All the participants of the conflict between the United States and the Barbary Pirates have been dead for a couple hundred years. Constantly bringing this stuff up in order to demonize your cultural rivals is illogical.

Its like saying Americans have always been tyrants because of their enslavement of Africans and their genocide of Native American tribes. Is that fair to place on your heads?

Which brings me to this next point. What were many of the American ships doing floating around the African coast in the 1700-1800's? That's right, they were CAPTURING THEIR OWN SLAVES.

There were no innocent "sides", only innocent individuals. Piracy wasn't restricted to one region of the world or one cultural background.

That's where I was going with my question. Any time the history of American atrocities is brought up, it's met with "that was a long time ago", "we weren't alive then so that can't be held against us", etc.

This is the Hatfields and McCoys on a global scales. After awhile, even the original participants blame the other side for starting it. Meanwhile, the innocents keep dying.

 

[rambone]

If we do not, we will be in a perpetual state of war responding to it. Take your pick.

False dichotomy of epic proportions.

The nutjobs will be around with or without our military spending binge. NOTHING happening overseas is deterring a nut from harming people and then killing himself. I believe we are LESS SAFE because of this government's actions overseas. We are certainly MORE BROKE because of it.

 

[88GT]

Am I guilty because of the sins of my ancestors? Are "Moslems" guilty because of piracy that took place 200 years ago?

All the participants of the conflict between the United States and the Barbary Pirates have been dead for a couple hundred years. Constantly bringing this stuff up in order to demonize your cultural rivals is illogical.

Its like saying Americans have always been tyrants because of their enslavement of Africans and their genocide of Native American tribes. Is that fair to place on your heads?

Which brings me to this next point. What were many of the American ships doing floating around the African coast in the 1700-1800's? That's right, they were CAPTURING THEIR OWN SLAVES.

There were no innocent "sides", only innocent individuals. Piracy wasn't restricted to one region of the world or one cultural background.

So you're saying that justifying behavior based on the actions of the past doesn't fly with you? Will you now stop justifying the Muslim acts of terror based on our recent past?

 

[88GT]

False dichotomy of epic proportions.

The nutjobs will be around with or without our military spending binge. NOTHING happening overseas is deterring a nut from harming people and then killing himself. I believe we are LESS SAFE because of this government's actions overseas. We are certainly MORE BROKE because of it.

So you prefer just taking it up the tailpipe when it happens? Duly noted.

 

[HenryWallace]

This truth will be subject to what you believe.

Are 'we' believing that these Muslim 'terrorists' are so angry at us because of our populous having microwaves, a wife we love and cherish as our own body and two cars in every garage or is someone setting here pitting both sides against each other like has been done SO very many times in the past, watching us go at each other even though we all have 1 BIG thing in common.... We're all taking it up the tailpipe whether we want to believe it or not. Did anyone pay their 'property' tax just recently?

 

[IndyDave1776]

Am I guilty because of the sins of my ancestors? Are "Moslems" guilty because of piracy that took place 200 years ago?

No, but they are guilty of clinging to the tradition of being a problem when able to do so. They are also guilty of living to the same standard as they did then. Conversely, we, as a society, have outgrown a number of our less flattering traits from the same period of time.

 

[rambone]

So you prefer just taking it up the tailpipe when it happens? Duly noted.

You're still stuck in your false dichotomy. As if the only two choices are "perpetual war" or "taking it up the tailpipe."

Perpetual war IS taking it up the tailpipe.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Perhaps dealing with the persons responsible would be a good solution and making it painful on those who shield them (rather than taking invasion on a world tour and simultaneously destroying any semblance of liberty we have left)?

 

[dross]

Blaming for the past is a straw man. The point being made was that we have had conflicts with people who use their religion as a justification for attacking us long before these modern "reasons" existed.

 

[rambone]

Perhaps dealing with the persons responsible would be a good solution and making it painful on those who shield them (rather than taking invasion on a world tour and simultaneously destroying any semblance of liberty we have left)?

Now we're talking. Individuals are the only ones capable of being guilty. Guilt cannot be assigned to ideas, religions, cultures, fighting tactics, or anything else.

On that note, I believe all the 9/11 individuals died or have been captured.

 

[ZombieApocolypse]

Now we're talking. Individuals are the only ones capable of being guilty. Guilt cannot be assigned to ideas, religions, cultures, fighting tactics, or anything else.

On that note, I believe all the 9/11 individuals died or have been captured.

What if said individuals belong to a group of people with like minded intrests/ideas/means? Should we not have gone after Al Quaida post (the first) 9/11?