What’s your go-to 7.62 or .308 cartridge for long range shooting?

[DadSmith]

It’s a Giselle trigger and I’m not sure the bipod but seems pretty solid. Scope is a vortex razor hs amg. I dont think Walmart carrys them. I’m aware 290 isn’t crazy far but it’s what i got to work with. I’m just trying to figure out what’s up with theses weird groups.

M118 7.62x51mm should get you decent accuracy it should shoot 2 moa.

History of the M118 Ammunition - Sniper Central

In the late 1950’s the United States military adopted the M14 battle rifle and M60 machine gun as standard combat arms incorporating the 7.62x51mm NATO cartridge which was the newly adopted NATO round. At this particular point in time the US Military had fallen back into the cycle of disbanding...

snipercentral.com

 

[BR8818]

Interesting, I was under the impression that the scar 20s was considered a precision rifle.

It is, I've seen guys group well under 1moa with a 20s. You just need the right ammo and skill. If your new to shooting for tiny groups or at distance it just takes time and practice.

Next time you go out to shoot take a couple dry fire shots first you might notice something your doing wrong or could improve upon. Also if your not use to shooting with a scope make sure your squared up behind it, watch for parallax, and back down the power a bit.

Nice rifle by the way. All of your equipment looks top notch just feed it the good stuff, and perfect the fundamentals then you'll see those groups shrink.

 

[Basher]

Interesting, I was under the impression that the scar 20s was considered a precision rifle.

100% my bad, I got my SCAR models confused!

That being said, if your fundamentals aren’t solid, a large-frame autoloader will be harder to run than a bolt rifle as I previously stated. The recoil impulses and lock time are different and take more skill to properly control, so less experienced shooters often struggle with them until they get those figured out. I don’t know you so I can’t say if that’s the case, I was merely pointing out it’s a potential factor.

In any case, invest in some match ammo and I’d wager your 20S starts turning in better groups.

 

[bwframe]

How would one start to diagnose whether the accuracy issue is the gun, the ammo, the platform or the shooter? Start with another rifle?

 

[55fairlane]

How would one start to diagnose whether the accuracy issue is the gun, the ammo, the platform or the shooter? Start with another rifle?

First thing to do, is grab one of tour buddies who is a great marksman and let him/her shoot for groups.....then tweet your load , then replace parts that you have out paced......

 

[sloughfoot]

I won't disagree with all the wisdom offered to your question, but I'm pretty sure that a bipod shot off a solid surface can introduce a whole series of harmonics. Perhaps a sandbag rest without a bipod might show some improvement.

Years ago, the 168 Sierra was developed for superb accuracy at 300 yards. A cartridge using that bullet will give you a good chance at accuracy.

 

[sloughfoot]

I have a buddy who shoots deap in the 190's offhand with a fixed 24X, scares me!

Offhand 1 to 1.5X ,sitting 4-5X, rapid prone 6-7X slow prone 10X (max my optic goes) I hate target jump or marage, brought on by to much optic magnification.

A prone Match? Yes please.....there is a 300 "mid range " in October at ft wayne rifle and revolver..... @Leo I know you can shoot, so to the rest of ya, come on out and show us your "long distance " skills.....

I really need to show up for the mid-range match. There won't be scope on the rifle, irons for me. .308 with 155's.

I have tried to shoot with a scope. It's just too complicated for this elderly guy.

 

[Basher]

How would one start to diagnose whether the accuracy issue is the gun, the ammo, the platform or the shooter? Start with another rifle?

Process of elimination.

Start by verifying everything is set up correctly. All fasteners/mounts torqued to spec and haven’t moved, eye relief properly set, diopter set, parallax adjusted properly. Use known quality ammo on the calmest day you can manage. If it still groups like crap, try another rifle that’s a known quantity to try and eliminate the shooter as an issue, or find a known good shooter to try and eliminate the rifle, either/or.

If switching shooters fixes it, I have some rough truths for you lol.

If it doesn’t, start with easy things first. Make sure the barrel is free-floated or isn’t being stressed abnormally and isn’t lose (shouldn’t be an issue on any quality non-QD rifle, if it is, get it spun on correctly). Next, swap optics/mounts with a setup that’s known to track accurately and hold zero and try again. If the rifle suddenly groups, either the optic, the mounts, or both need addressing. If not, might be time to take it to a smith to check the chamber, headspace, borescope, etc.

Like anything else, start with what’s easiest/cheapest to fix and work your way up.

 

[PSOD]

Let me clarify, I’m new to longer range shooting. Not shooting in general. I think my fundamentals (breathing, trigger control, ranging/elevation adjustments, etc) are decent. I never really had a gun that could shoot that kinda distance. I can stack 3 shots on a silver dollar with my Winchester 30-06 deer rifle. I’m just trying to figure this scar and ammo thing out cause I never had a reason to shoot much past 100yds before.

It is, I've seen guys group well under 1moa with a 20s. You just need the right ammo and skill. If you’re new to shooting for tiny groups or at distance it just takes time and practice.

Next time you go out to shoot take a couple dry fire shots first you might notice something your doing wrong or could improve upon. Also if your not use to shooting with a scope make sure your squared up behind it, watch for parallax, and back down the power a bit.

Nice rifle by the way. All of your equipment looks top notch just feed it the good stuff, and perfect the fundamentals then you'll see those groups shrink.

100% my bad, I got my SCAR models confused!

That being said, if your fundamentals aren’t solid, a large-frame autoloader will be harder to run than a bolt rifle as I previously stated. The recoil impulses and lock time are different and take more skill to properly control, so less experienced shooters often struggle with them until they get those figured out. I don’t know you so I can’t say if that’s the case, I was merely pointing out it’s a potential factor.

In any case, invest in some match ammo and I’d wager your 20S starts turning in better groups.

Does shooting in general not really translate to longer range shooting? Iv been shooting for about 20 years (hunting and some 3 gun) and like to think I have the fundamentals locked down pretty good. That being said I could always use more practice.

 

[55fairlane]

Let me clarify, I’m new to longer range shooting. Not shooting in general. I think my fundamentals (breathing, trigger control, ranging/elevation adjustments, etc) are decent. I never really had a gun that could shoot that kinda distance.


Does shooting in general not really translate to longer range shooting? Iv been shooting for about 20 years (hunting and some 3 gun) and like to think I have the fundamentals locked down pretty good. That being said I could always use more practice.

Does shooting in general no translate to long range? , no it doesn't......I can clean the target at 300(even a reduced to look 600) but at 600 things get real. You must be able to "call the wind" you could have 3 or 4 different winds pushing your bullet around. Not so much at 300. Lots more drop / velocity loss at 600, follow thru is everything, keep your eye on the target, squeeze thru the shot, hold the trigger back, hold your perfect position, hold your breath...............now relax.......at short distance you can have a few bad habits and still do ok.......come up in October to FWRR and get a taste of mid range.....or come over to alliance tomorrow for a real taste of mid range.....

 

[Basher]

Does shooting in general not really translate to longer range shooting? Iv been shooting for about 20 years (hunting and some 3 gun) and like to think I have the fundamentals locked down pretty good. That being said I could always use more practice.

Long range precision stuff is what “separates the men from the boys,” as the saying goes. You may have 20 years of decent shooting experience, but a lot of that can be a smoke show when you start extending the distance.

Like 55fairlane said, wind alone becomes a major factor at distance. And a “good” shot at 100 yards becomes a mediocre one at 600+. Tiny errors barely show at short range, but they become exponentially more evident at long range. Remember, we’re playing with angles here. If you’re 1 minute off at 100y, you “miss” by an inch. If you’re 1 minute off at 1000y, you miss by almost an 10.5”.

Anyway, without seeing you shoot, no one will be able to tell you how much of a factor you’re playing here. You may be 100% good to go and just need to use better ammo. Buy a few boxes and go shoot!

 

[rosejm]

Additionally, your expectations might be high. In my experience with factory ammo, bulk FMJ type loads are ~4MoA. Match loads are about 2MoA, and generally cost 2x as much as bulk. There are more expensive "factory" options, but the cost goes up pretty quick for not a lot more precision.

5" @ 290y is 1.73MoA, which is right in the ballpark averages using factory match loads.
Note: when I say average, I'm not referring to the quality of the group but rather the statistical average size. You may find some smaller groups, especially when there are fewer rounds in them.

Here's some talk about rifle manufacturer's 1MoA warranties which might give some more insight.

 

[sloughfoot]

You can have the best ammo, a quality rifle, years of experience, and still shoot a 7!!! If it's a wind 7 that's ok. It's the elevation 7 that draws the WTH.

Don't ask me how I know. I always blame the ammo. The beer is just as good afterwards...But crap!

It's only important to play in the game.

 

[NyleRN]

I won't disagree with all the wisdom offered to your question, but I'm pretty sure that a bipod shot off a solid surface can introduce a whole series of harmonics. Perhaps a sandbag rest without a bipod might show some improvement.

Years ago, the 168 Sierra was developed for superb accuracy at 300 yards. A cartridge using that bullet will give you a good chance at accuracy.

Bingo. If I'm trying for cloverleafs then I'm riding bags. Just hitting a man sized target at short distance a bipod is fine

 

[Combat Engineer]

I'm not a sniper nor killer distance shooter.This is from a twenty inch barrel SFAR at 350 yards with pmc bronze.

 

[55fairlane]

600 yard target, the 10 ring is 12 inches across, the X ring is 6 inches , shot today at alliancerifleclub.org....

 

[Combat Engineer]

Nice shooting.Bet it wasn't pmc bronze.

 

[55fairlane]

Nice shooting.Bet it wasn't pmc bronze.

77 grain SMK , out of a match rifle

 

[Combat Engineer]

That's a nice rifle.

 

[55fairlane]

That's a nice rifle.

It gets the job done.....lol....