What can we learn from Sandy

[churchmouse]

I'm on Long Island right now. I'll give you a run down of the realities here when I have a chance. The truth is getting through a disaster starts with the neighbors you choose. More later.

Yes, agreed but living in town sometimes you have no choice.

 

[Libertarian01]

Miester has most options covered. We have fuel stashed away from us at safe locations. My bug out would be west of indy so our routes are well planned with alternates routes to the alternates. Stay away from the main rds. The sheeple and lemmings will know of no other route to escape and that will be their end.
Several have stated and it is a fact, even the best laid out plans can be thwarted by mother nature on a rampage. She will have the final say in these matters.

To All,

A big +1 and repped!

During a crisis it is a given that all routes will be bad but some will be worse than others.

My main goal in Ft. Wayne is to get out of town using NO main roads, or as little as possible to get to a bug out location.

I have written down a route and driven it once. I keep a typed copy of the directions in my car so that I am not trying to remember. I don't want to get lost on back roads.

If you want just go out to Google maps and take a "big picture" look at your home and the quickest way out of an urban area NOT using main roads. Be very careful of bridges that could be out as this can seriously mess up routing.

Also remember that by doing so it WILL take longer to drive and more gas. To get to my normal bug out location takes about an hour drive from Fort Wayne, give or take a few minutes. Using my back route took me a little over 90 minutes to go about 40 miles.

Regards,

Doug

 

[longbow]

Things I have learned from the East Coast Hurricane… ( but I’m not surprised)
An amazing number of people did not prepare even with warnings of the storm
An amazing number of people do not even have basic supplies.
Urban areas in a regional disaster will have water and sewer issues within hours. They should have had a plan. Pooping in the hallways in apartments is not a good fallback plan.
Homes closer than 50 feet apart will ignite if the neighbor home is burning and no fire services can reach the site. If you live in a high density neighborhood, expect your home to be a loss if a fire develops.
I have to shake my head at the number of people who did not even have a quarter of a tank of gas in cars or trucks. The reason is the high price of gas and always making short trips.
Plan for six days of no help after a regional emergency.
Plan for no power for 10 days and have fuel for several refills of your generator.
I don’t think I could live in an area that is 10 feet or less above the average sea level or near the 100 year flood plain.
If you know your area is going to flood, move your car to higher ground.
Check your insurance, I am shocked at the stories I am hearing about coverage issues that a normal insurance agent should have caught. Million dollar homes with no contents insurance, so everything in the house is not covered by insurance!
People without basic tools, work gloves or more than a small bag of trash bags
Ready to eat meals for the first few days are a must.
Install a sewer check valve or gate valve on your sewer line. Use it to prevent the backflow from sewage coming back into your house if the sewage system fails. It will prevent your basement from being filled with sewage and make the recovery easier. The only down side is your bathrooms will be useless.

 

[Survivalcookie]

I just cannot figure out why people are not out there with cans and siphon hoses getting gas out of those boats. When we lived on the coast our boat was always full of gas. Came in handy after a hurricane when we lost power for 7 days.

 

[Survivalcookie]

Things I have learned from the East Coast Hurricane… ( but I’m not surprised)
An amazing number of people did not prepare even with warnings of the storm
An amazing number of people do not even have basic supplies.
Urban areas in a regional disaster will have water and sewer issues within hours. They should have had a plan. Pooping in the hallways in apartments is not a good fallback plan.
Homes closer than 50 feet apart will ignite if the neighbor home is burning and no fire services can reach the site. If you live in a high density neighborhood, expect your home to be a loss if a fire develops.
I have to shake my head at the number of people who did not even have a quarter of a tank of gas in cars or trucks. The reason is the high price of gas and always making short trips.
Plan for six days of no help after a regional emergency.
Plan for no power for 10 days and have fuel for several refills of your generator.
I don’t think I could live in an area that is 10 feet or less above the average sea level or near the 100 year flood plain.
If you know your area is going to flood, move your car to higher ground.
Check your insurance, I am shocked at the stories I am hearing about coverage issues that a normal insurance agent should have caught. Million dollar homes with no contents insurance, so everything in the house is not covered by insurance!
People without basic tools, work gloves or more than a small bag of trash bags
Ready to eat meals for the first few days are a must.
Install a sewer check valve or gate valve on your sewer line. Use it to prevent the backflow from sewage coming back into your house if the sewage system fails. It will prevent your basement from being filled with sewage and make the recovery easier. The only down side is your bathrooms will be useless.

Good post...I will add a couple of things...if your sewer fails pee outside if possible. But a trash can liner in your toilet will collect solids..or a 5 gallon bucket with a trash bag in it and a toilet seat works great.

Plus...Plan for no gas...or your gas running out if you cannot safely store a bunch of gas. Eat the food in fridge first and then the freezer and save you can food.

I understand people not leaving...have been there and done that...was stupid. But after Katrina we really took heed of the size and strength of the storm...and realized that it is easier to evacuate.

 

[Survivalcookie]

To All,

A big +1 and repped!

During a crisis it is a given that all routes will be bad but some will be worse than others.

My main goal in Ft. Wayne is to get out of town using NO main roads, or as little as possible to get to a bug out location.

I have written down a route and driven it once. I keep a typed copy of the directions in my car so that I am not trying to remember. I don't want to get lost on back roads.

If you want just go out to Google maps and take a "big picture" look at your home and the quickest way out of an urban area NOT using main roads. Be very careful of bridges that could be out as this can seriously mess up routing.

Also remember that by doing so it WILL take longer to drive and more gas. To get to my normal bug out location takes about an hour drive from Fort Wayne, give or take a few minutes. Using my back route took me a little over 90 minutes to go about 40 miles.

Regards,

Doug

Heck some of the gigantic sub divisions I would say the same....try and find alternate routes out of those subdivisions. Imagine if a major train derailment and your neighborhood is evacuated...and everyone is trying to leave at once.

 

[Libertarian01]

To All,

Just a few comments as Longbow brought up some good points.

Things I have learned from the East Coast Hurricane… ( but I’m not surprised)
An amazing number of people did not prepare even with warnings of the storm

That is pathetic.

An amazing number of people do not even have basic supplies.

Sad.

Urban areas in a regional disaster will have water and sewer issues within hours. They should have had a plan. Pooping in the hallways in apartments is not a good fallback plan.

What if it is not your building...?

Homes closer than 50 feet apart will ignite if the neighbor home is burning and no fire services can reach the site. If you live in a high density neighborhood, expect your home to be a loss if a fire develops.

I wonder if brick housing would be of greater protection or if the roof is "just gonna give?"

I have to shake my head at the number of people who did not even have a quarter of a tank of gas in cars or trucks. The reason is the high price of gas and always making short trips.

Buddy of mine in this boat. Just lost his job here in FW. He is usually on fumes and only puts a few bucks in when he absolutely has to.

Plan for six days of no help after a regional emergency.

Good idea.

Plan for no power for 10 days and have fuel for several refills of your generator.

Good idea as well.

I don’t think I could live in an area that is 10 feet or less above the average sea level or near the 100 year flood plain.

I noticed this driving around FW for work! When we have had heavy rains and flooding you notice the homes on HIGH GROUND!

If you know your area is going to flood, move your car to higher ground.
Check your insurance, I am shocked at the stories I am hearing about coverage issues that a normal insurance agent should have caught. Million dollar homes with no contents insurance, so everything in the house is not covered by insurance!

Ok, Insurance 101.

In Indiana there are four (4) basic types of homeowners insurance.

HO-2
HO-3
HO-4
HO-5

HO-2 - Very cheap, inexpensive coverage. DO NOT BUY IT! Basically it lists every risk that is covered. Not on the list? NOT COVERED! Example: Guy goes into attic and falls through beams, continues falling through roof into room below. It is not listed, therefore it is not covered.

HO-3 - Good coverage. Basically it lists everything that is excluded from coverage. Not on the list? COVERED!!! Example: Guy goes into attic and falls through ceiling. It is not excluded, therefore it is covered. Caveat: Contents are covered as in an HO-2!

HO-4 - Renters insurance. Covers liability and contents only.

HO-5 - High end coverage. Basically an HO-3 w/ exclusion protection ON THE CONTENTS!

The problem you run into is in each of these packages flood damage is either not listed OR is excluded. So, you can have the best coverage in the world and if your home gets hit w/ a flood loss and you don't have flood protection NOTHING is covered! For folks who have never been hit w/ a flood or even threatened who would want to waste the money? Problem comes up when the fluke does hit you have no coverage.

Minor clarification: In Indiana IF we were to get hit w/ a hurricane it would be covered under an HO-3 as wind damage. Same as a tornado. HOWEVER, in Florida due to the amount of risks they take you must purchase hurricane coverage to be protected.

People without basic tools, work gloves or more than a small bag of trash bags

To me this is regrettably understandable. For many in large urban environments where renting the landlord takes care of things OR they simply almost never need it and don't have it.

Ready to eat meals for the first few days are a must.

Good point!

Install a sewer check valve or gate valve on your sewer line. Use it to prevent the backflow from sewage coming back into your house if the sewage system fails. It will prevent your basement from being filled with sewage and make the recovery easier. The only down side is your bathrooms will be useless.

Saw this years ago! My parents had one. It failed. It is amazing how much can be damaged/destroyed with only a few inches of water for less than 8 hours!

Good points and thoughts.

Regards,

Doug

 

[Hajisc]

Some friends think I'm crazy for prepping, but I point to sandy , Katrina and other catastrophes for justification. It doesn't take long for everyone to take a "every man for themselves" attitude.
Big city attitude will get you killed.

 

[Iroquois]

All this reminds me that I need to organize my preps...also need new battery in the genny.
I have preps and bags to bug out but I need to pack them for the day we really need them
Also aught to fill the gas cans for the genny or bugging out...I'm gonna be real disappointed
in myself when we get 3 feet of snow and lose power for a week...funny how even peppers drop
the ball once in a while.
I guess the difference is we at least consider the possibility of SHTF while the sheeple never do...

 

[TiminMishawaka]

Ok,
Here's what works in the middle of a realistic shtf situation for people in relatively urban areas. Obviously if you live out in the country, things are different.

For getting out:

1. Get a high mpg vehicle. When SHTF, you're not going mudding and this isn't the 1800s. Every freaking thing is paved. My car and a ten gallon extra tank of gas means over 600 miles of travel between fill ups. Guys with SUVs are sitting in gas lines out here while I go 2-3 days between fill ups, and I am out here driving to 6-7 houses a day for my job. I've taken a front wheel drive coupe in the Joplin Tornado, Hurricane Irene, Hurricane Sandy and a half dozen smaller wind storms and floods. If the road's flooded, I take another road. If floods are coming, I get to high ground first and let the high mpg give me options for getting around and out. Of course I am never in an area when a disaster hits but I am there a day or two after and I've never had a problem with this little unassuming Scion TC.

2. Get a GPS. Seriously, get one. They're under 200 bucks. You can have the queen mother of all hurricanes but it won't knock out the satellites. You need one to find alternate routes in a hurry. Show off your mad map skills later.

If you're staying (a lot of this is based on stuff that can be in a car but that's because I take my car in to disasters):

1. Bottled water and a hiker's water filtration system. I never carry more than a gallon of water because 80% of our planet is made from it. I don't get people who stock gallons upon gallons of water. I do know that If I ever open a prepper store I'm going to sell canisters of "air" to sell to these people, just in case there isn't any. Learn how to filter and treat it. Taps are generally going to work or there's going to be water filters and assuming you got a high mpg vehicle, you're a short trip away from the 7-11 in the next county that didn't get hit by the storm. I carry a little food too in the vehicle but not more than a couple days and mostly it's to keep me from spending money eating out. I was just at the Starbucks in Brooklyn today and they were apologizing that the storm wiped out their supply of Bistro Boxes and I had to settle for a croissant. I know. Serious SHTF here.

2. Flashlights. Obvious reasons why.

3. Get a power inverter for your car. The lights are going to be out. While you're going to get water, check on neighbors or driving to my store to buy an emergency stash of air, your car is a generator that isn't being used if you don't tap into it. A power inverter is 30 bucks maybe.

4. Get a fireplace or a kerosene heater and keep fuel for it at home. Also get plastic contractor bags from Home Depot and duct tape. Assuming your home is still 4 walls and a roof, you can make a portion of it dry and warm in any weather by sealing it off and getting heat in there. Seal doors with duct tape. Seal windows with plastic bags and duct tape. Be careful with the kerosene heater. I always sleep in a position elevated higher than the flame and leave a vent opening at the lowest level of the floor.

5. Sleep high. Elevate yourself by means of a bunk bed or whatever you can do so you are sleeping in the warmest part of the room and can turn down the heat at night to as little as possible to maintain that heat.

6. Food. Store and buy stuff you can "cook" by putting boiling water in. Stews and soups are great too. You can put the pot on top of your kerosene heater and cook with your heating heat. I enjoy Asian food almost as much as Asian women and prefer the Annie Chun's. If need be, I can take a 10 dollar sun beam water heater and heat the water using the inverter in my car while heading to my prepper store to buy an emergency stash of air and eat dinner in the parking lot while gloating at all the other fools who rely on the government to provide air for them.

7. Work gloves, more trash bags, disinfecting wipes and first aid kits. Get out there and start helping your community clean up. You'll never forget the horror of the disaster and by keeping the right attitude you'll never forget how amazing people can be when they work together to help each other clean the S from the fan.

 

[WC Deer Hunter]

Subscribed

 

[longbow]

Brick might help, but the wood roof overhang would still catch fire. The heat will still go "through" the windows and start fires in the house.

A brick house with a metal roof and metal covered eves would help. Metal shutters on the side windows would make a differenence. Anything to reflect heat could make a difference.

 

[Ted]

Ok,
Here's what works in the middle of a realistic shtf situation for people in relatively urban areas. Obviously if you live out in the country, things are different.

For getting out:

1. Get a high mpg vehicle.

2. Get a GPS.

A high mpg vehicle has its advantages, but not entirely practical for those with large families, and/or those with the need to bring a high amount of supplies and/or equipment.

GPS is fine, but there is no excuse to not having an topographical atlas. GPS are electronic devices that can fail at the worst moment.

If you're staying (a lot of this is based on stuff that can be in a car but that's because I take my car in to disasters):

1. Bottled water and a hiker's water filtration system. I never carry more than a gallon of water because 80% of our planet is made from it. I don't get people who stock gallons upon gallons of water.

3 days of water is recommended storage. Subfreezing temperatures pose special challenges to obtaining water from nature. I once had no water for 4 days due to a street water main break from a wintertime freeze, and relied entirely upon my water stores for cooking, cleaning, hygiene, and drinking.

There was no snow or ice on the ground to re-purpose, and area retention ponds were difficult to access, due to the incredibly thick ice.

2. Flashlights. Obvious reasons why.

3. Get a power inverter for your car.......A power inverter is 30 bucks maybe.

Power inverters cost more, as their power capabilities rise. Running a sump pump, for instance, to prevent your basement from becoming flooded, will require an enormous amount of power.

4. Get a fireplace or a kerosene heater and keep fuel for it at home. Also get plastic contractor bags from Home Depot and duct tape. Assuming your home is still 4 walls and a roof, you can make a portion of it dry and warm in any weather by sealing it off and getting heat in there. Seal doors with duct tape. Seal windows with plastic bags and duct tape. Be careful with the kerosene heater. I always sleep in a position elevated higher than the flame and leave a vent opening at the lowest level of the floor.

Winter camping equipment/ice fishing equipment is incredibly useful as well. Be wary of Carbon Monoxide and fire hazards posed by anything that utilizes fire.

5. Sleep high. Elevate yourself by means of a bunk bed or whatever you can do so you are sleeping in the warmest part of the room and can turn down the heat at night to as little as possible to maintain that heat.

6. Food. Store and buy stuff you can "cook" by putting boiling water in. Stews and soups are great too.

Consider a wide variety of foods that can be eaten by differing methods. MREs in light use, is a good, short term solution.

7. Work gloves, more trash bags, disinfecting wipes and first aid kits. Get out there and start helping your community clean up. You'll never forget the horror of the disaster and by keeping the right attitude you'll never forget how amazing people can be when they work together to help each other clean the S from the fan.

Trash cans to dump refuse into a makeshift fence to contain non bio-hazardous works well, until it can be loaded into a truck for landfill, and in the interim, can be repurposed if the need arises.

 

[churchmouse]

Ok,
Here's what works in the middle of a realistic shtf situation for people in relatively urban areas. Obviously if you live out in the country, things are different.

For getting out:

1. Get a high mpg vehicle. When SHTF, you're not going mudding and this isn't the 1800s. Every freaking thing is paved. My car and a ten gallon extra tank of gas means over 600 miles of travel between fill ups. Guys with SUVs are sitting in gas lines out here while I go 2-3 days between fill ups, and I am out here driving to 6-7 houses a day for my job. I've taken a front wheel drive coupe in the Joplin Tornado, Hurricane Irene, Hurricane Sandy and a half dozen smaller wind storms and floods. If the road's flooded, I take another road. If floods are coming, I get to high ground first and let the high mpg give me options for getting around and out. Of course I am never in an area when a disaster hits but I am there a day or two after and I've never had a problem with this little unassuming Scion TC.

2. Get a GPS. Seriously, get one. They're under 200 bucks. You can have the queen mother of all hurricanes but it won't knock out the satellites. You need one to find alternate routes in a hurry. Show off your mad map skills later.

If you're staying (a lot of this is based on stuff that can be in a car but that's because I take my car in to disasters):

1. Bottled water and a hiker's water filtration system. I never carry more than a gallon of water because 80% of our planet is made from it. I don't get people who stock gallons upon gallons of water. I do know that If I ever open a prepper store I'm going to sell canisters of "air" to sell to these people, just in case there isn't any. Learn how to filter and treat it. Taps are generally going to work or there's going to be water filters and assuming you got a high mpg vehicle, you're a short trip away from the 7-11 in the next county that didn't get hit by the storm. I carry a little food too in the vehicle but not more than a couple days and mostly it's to keep me from spending money eating out. I was just at the Starbucks in Brooklyn today and they were apologizing that the storm wiped out their supply of Bistro Boxes and I had to settle for a croissant. I know. Serious SHTF here.

2. Flashlights. Obvious reasons why.

3. Get a power inverter for your car. The lights are going to be out. While you're going to get water, check on neighbors or driving to my store to buy an emergency stash of air, your car is a generator that isn't being used if you don't tap into it. A power inverter is 30 bucks maybe.

4. Get a fireplace or a kerosene heater and keep fuel for it at home. Also get plastic contractor bags from Home Depot and duct tape. Assuming your home is still 4 walls and a roof, you can make a portion of it dry and warm in any weather by sealing it off and getting heat in there. Seal doors with duct tape. Seal windows with plastic bags and duct tape. Be careful with the kerosene heater. I always sleep in a position elevated higher than the flame and leave a vent opening at the lowest level of the floor.

5. Sleep high. Elevate yourself by means of a bunk bed or whatever you can do so you are sleeping in the warmest part of the room and can turn down the heat at night to as little as possible to maintain that heat.

6. Food. Store and buy stuff you can "cook" by putting boiling water in. Stews and soups are great too. You can put the pot on top of your kerosene heater and cook with your heating heat. I enjoy Asian food almost as much as Asian women and prefer the Annie Chun's. If need be, I can take a 10 dollar sun beam water heater and heat the water using the inverter in my car while heading to my prepper store to buy an emergency stash of air and eat dinner in the parking lot while gloating at all the other fools who rely on the government to provide air for them.

7. Work gloves, more trash bags, disinfecting wipes and first aid kits. Get out there and start helping your community clean up. You'll never forget the horror of the disaster and by keeping the right attitude you'll never forget how amazing people can be when they work together to help each other clean the S from the fan.

All good points except the water. If you have some on hand, why drive when you can stay. If I can avoid travel through storm ravaged areas why not. We stash a butt load of water as it is needed for the freeze dried foods we store. It is nice to drink as well.
I am looking into the canned air situation. Might be a market opportunity here if worked right....................

Power inverter's of any quality cost a bit. If you get one, read the instructions before you use it. They have definite limitations.

 

[6mm Shoot]

Not to live next to the ocean? If you live next to the ocean don't stay when a storm is coming and your told to get out?

 

[Bunnykid68]

All good points except the water. If you have some on hand, why drive when you can stay. If I can avoid travel through storm ravaged areas why not. We stash a butt load of water as it is needed for the freeze dried foods we store. It is nice to drink as well.
I am looking into the canned air situation. Might be a market opportunity here if worked right....................

Power inverter's of any quality cost a bit. If you get one, read the instructions before you use it. They have definite limitations.

Are you talking about this?

 

[TiminMishawaka]

All good points except the water. If you have some on hand, why drive when you can stay. If I can avoid travel through storm ravaged areas why not. We stash a butt load of water as it is needed for the freeze dried foods we store. It is nice to drink as well.
I am looking into the canned air situation. Might be a market opportunity here if worked right....................

Power inverter's of any quality cost a bit. If you get one, read the instructions before you use it. They have definite limitations.

Yeah I meant to split the water between water when on the move and water when sitting at home, but I wrote it as one thing before thinking splitting it into two and forget to separate water. For travelling, I'm always going in to a disaster so my perspective is travelling in. Going in I never carry more than a gallon. The only exception was the Joplin tornado. I loaded a crate of water bottles in my car to pass out to volunteers so they wouldn't have to go find any. I have more at home. I just don't get the point to lugging it when you can learn to filter and treat it.

As to inverters, their place is recharging all your electronics communications, batteries and portable lighting equipment. I had to laugh when I read the idea of someone having one plugged in to their sump pump. I guess I need to advise folks that the cigarette lighter in their car may not provide enough power for their arc welder too. Bass Pro makes one that's the size of a pop can and is meant to sit in a cup holder. I have used that to recharge my laptop, cell phone, gps, camera batteries, flashlight batteries, everything while driving around doing errands. Been using this same one through every storm since Hurricane Gustav.

I'll drop you a PM. We'll go into the Emergency Air Stash business. No prepper is complete without a 72 hour supply of air.

One important thing I also completely forgot is baby wipes. These things are great for cleaning yourself up after cleaning up debris and they make a great waterless shower. I've done many a baby wipes "whore's bath" while in disasters and while it's not a hot shower, it sure feels cleaner.

 

[churchmouse]

Yeah I meant to split the water between water when on the move and water when sitting at home, but I wrote it as one thing before thinking splitting it into two and forget to separate water. For travelling, I'm always going in to a disaster so my perspective is travelling in. Going in I never carry more than a gallon. The only exception was the Joplin tornado. I loaded a crate of water bottles in my car to pass out to volunteers so they wouldn't have to go find any. I have more at home. I just don't get the point to lugging it when you can learn to filter and treat it.

As to inverters, their place is recharging all your electronics communications, batteries and portable lighting equipment. I had to laugh when I read the idea of someone having one plugged in to their sump pump. I guess I need to advise folks that the cigarette lighter in their car may not provide enough power for their arc welder too. Bass Pro makes one that's the size of a pop can and is meant to sit in a cup holder. I have used that to recharge my laptop, cell phone, gps, camera batteries, flashlight batteries, everything while driving around doing errands. Been using this same one through every storm since Hurricane Gustav.

I'll drop you a PM. We'll go into the Emergency Air Stash business. No prepper is complete without a 72 hour supply of air.

One important thing I also completely forgot is baby wipes. These things are great for cleaning yourself up after cleaning up debris and they make a great waterless shower. I've done many a baby wipes "whore's bath" while in disasters and while it's not a hot shower, it sure feels cleaner.

After a re-read of your post I do see what you were referring to. Makes perfect sense now. The inverter for electronics is perfect. The sump pump reference is why I stated limitations.
My wife stocks up on the baby wipes as we are surrounded with grand-baby's and that is where my perception of emergency's comes from. Stay put if you can. Roll out in plenty of time if you can once told the real S is about to hit the fan. With all the youngsters water would be at a premium. Perception. Different from every set of eyes.

I am in on the air stash idea. If you put a Zombie on the can it is an automatic best seller.

Dehydrated water might be a good one as well.

Stay safe.

 

[churchmouse]

Are you talking about this?

I see a corporate operation in the works here boys. Now if we could just come up with a good snake oil recipe.

 

[Libertarian01]

Are you talking about this?

Bunnykid68,

Do NOT do that again! I laughed so hard I almost had an accident. Picking myself up off the floor was a minor inconvenience for a great laugh!

Thank you!!!

Doug