What if you felt threatened by an LEO?

[AJBB87]

In Indiana, for both officer and motorist safety, it is illegal for an officer to make a traffic stop in plain clothes.

*Unless they are in a marked police car* - Plain clothes and marked police car is a valid stop.

 

[HoughMade]

*Unless they are in a marked police car* - Plain clothes and marked police car is a valid stop.

There you go.

 

[Ggreen]

I don't believe I'd try that if the alleged LEO is standing there pointing his gun at me.

I'm with you. I did not make this thread to be a stop and frisk type of threat, but a legitiment "I did nothing wrong" "this guy is attacking me unprovoked and threatening life and limb".

 

[Coach]

Feeling threatened or being afraid is not a justification for using deadly force on anyone. There has to be threat of death or great bodily harm. Not necessarily the same thing as feeling threatened.

I cannot imagine a situation where drawing a gun on a LEO is going to be a good idea. I cannot imagine it working out without serious jail time.

"If I don't shoot this person right now am I going to die?" If the answer is yes hammer down. If the answer is anything but yes. Do something else.

 

[jagee]

Feeling threatened or being afraid is not a justification for using deadly force on anyone. There has to be threat of death or great bodily harm. Not necessarily the same thing as feeling threatened.

I cannot imagine a situation where drawing a gun on a LEO is going to be a good idea. I cannot imagine it working out without serious jail time.

"If I don't shoot this person right now am I going to die?" If the answer is yes hammer down. If the answer is anything but yes. Do something else.

But my gun is striker fired

 

[Fargo]

If we are talking about things that actually happen more than once in several blue moons, police impersonators and dealing with them is a vastly more likely scenario than dirty cops doing rips in uniform.

 

[chezuki]

But my gun is striker fired

Then you probably already shot yourself in the leg on the draw anyway. Bleed out quietly.

 

[Fargo]

Then you probably already shot yourself in the leg on the draw anyway. Bleed out quietly.

Nothing is less dignified than a screaming Grelber!

 

[BehindBlueI's]

In Indiana, for both officer and motorist safety, it is illegal for an officer to make a traffic stop in plain clothes.

No, it isn't.

*Unless they are in a marked police car* - Plain clothes and marked police car is a valid stop.

Closer, but still not right.

It depends on what you're being stopped for.

Sec. 2. A law enforcement officer may not arrest or issue a traffic information and summons to a person for a violation of an Indiana law regulating the use and operation of a motor vehicle on a highway or an ordinance of a city or town regulating the use and operation of a motor vehicle on a highway unless at the time of the arrest the officer is:

(1) wearing a distinctive uniform and a badge of authority;  or

(2) operating a motor vehicle that is clearly marked as a police vehicle;

that will clearly show the officer or the officer's vehicle to casual observations to be an officer or a police vehicle.  This section does not apply to an officer making an arrest when there is a uniformed officer present at the time of the arrest.

The marked car/distinctive uniform requirement is only for traffic law enforcement. Theft? Not a traffic law. Driver has a warrant? Not a traffic law. Littering? Not a traffic law. 9-30-2-2 does not apply.

 

[Coach]

BBI. Just use the revolver and hammer down all five times.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

BBI. Just use the revolver and hammer down all five times.

My only five shot is hammerless....

 

[IndyDave1776]

My only five shot is hammerless....

Maybe he is suggesting you go really old school with your GP100 and carry an empty chamber under the hammer.

 

[Ggreen]

If we are talking about things that actually happen more than once in several blue moons, police impersonators and dealing with them is a vastly more likely scenario than dirty cops doing rips in uniform.

A good impersonator would be impossible to distinguish...

 

[Fargo]

A good impersonator would be impossible to distinguish...

If what appears to be a cop starts doing shakedowns or rips on me, I am going to generally assume they are an impersonator and treat them as such.

The odds of that being the case are vastly higher then the odds of the other.

 

[hpclayto]

No, it isn't.



Closer, but still not right.

It depends on what you're being stopped for.



The marked car/distinctive uniform requirement is only for traffic law enforcement. Theft? Not a traffic law. Driver has a warrant? Not a traffic law. Littering? Not a traffic law. 9-30-2-2 does not apply.

I'm glad you cleared that up for the people.

 

[TangoSierraEcho]

LEO's are people, people can make bad decisions. Is there an acceptable situation to draw on a uniformed leo, if so what? .

I don't think there is one that doesn't end with your widow or estate collecting insurance money

I am not talking about being lawfully detained, or being noncompliant here. I am thinking at what point does it go from law enforcement to endangerment by a law enforcer? What would the aftermath be even if it were legal self defense? I would never want to be in such a situation, but these are the weird things I think about while trying to block out the smell of the deuce i'm laying down on the the $hi**#&.

I think your best bet is to set yourself in a way where you can record/video the encounter. It may mean that you are a victim but you would be his or her last victim without having to draw a gun. If there is no video and you draw and lose it is the bad LEO's version that gets told not yours. If you draw and win and there is no video how do you explain he was a bad LEO?

When I'm working I have a body camera, yes department policy, but even if it wasn't I would want one.

 

[AJBB87]

In Indiana, for both officer and motorist safety, it is illegal for an officer to make a traffic stop in plain clothes.

*Unless they are in a marked police car* - Plain clothes and marked police car is a valid stop.

No, it isn't.



Closer, but still not right.

It depends on what you're being stopped for.



The marked car/distinctive uniform requirement is only for traffic law enforcement. Theft? Not a traffic law. Driver has a warrant? Not a traffic law. Littering? Not a traffic law. 9-30-2-2 does not apply.

My bad...blue falcon stated "traffic stop" which I assumed to be "traffic offense" which is pretty much the basis for any contact between motor vehicle operators and law enforcement. Never say never, but I'm not sure why an unmarked unit with a plain clothes officer would attempt to stop a theft suspect, or a driver with a warrant, or someone littering, without getting a marked unit involved to make the actual stop...

I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest because every situation is different, but in the spirit of helping everyone understand what to expect:

If you're getting pulled over, the other party should [at minimum] either be in uniform with badge, or a clearly marked patrol car.

If you're getting pulled over by an unmarked car with a plain clothes man or woman contacting you, call 911 and verify the stop...

 

[BehindBlueI's]

My bad...blue falcon stated "traffic stop" which I assumed to be "traffic offense" which is pretty much the basis for any contact between motor vehicle operators and law enforcement. Never say never, but I'm not sure why an unmarked unit with a plain clothes officer would attempt to stop a theft suspect, or a driver with a warrant, or someone littering, without getting a marked unit involved to make the actual stop...

Because stuff happens. Surveillance turns into an apprehension. You witness a threat to life while in your unmarked car. You start to set up surveillance and your wanted target jumps into a car and leaves. Traffic is light in the neighborhood, but if he makes it to the high way it's going to be tough to stay in sight.

I've been in pursuit of a robbery suspect where the first three cars were a FBI suburban (unmarked), a Ford Fusion (unmarked) and me (unmarked) until marked cars could get into the pursuit. I've separated two road ragers who were swerving in traffic, trying to chicken the other one into crashing, etc. when one threw a soda out the window onto the other one's windshield. I stopped him for littering. Once they were separated and not a risk to anyone any longer, I let litterbug go and went on my way. Waiting for a marked car would have been to let an ongoing to danger continue.

It happens. It's not illegal.

 

[rhino]

I think the risk of bad people who happen to be cops being predatory criminals while on the job depends on location and era. I don't see it happening much in Indianapolis in 2017. New York in the early 1970s is a completely different story (ask Frank Serpico).

 

[nobody_special]

Google Jamie Buford..
Not only a South Bend officer but two St Joseph County officers were involved in that saga