What is your EDC reload plan?

[2A_Tom]

 

[G192127]

I'm pretty late to this party, but I favor a "New York" reload simply because I can have gun#2 up and running before gun #1 runs empty.

 

[rhino]

I'm pretty late to this party, but I favor a "New York" reload simply because I can have gun#2 up and running before gun #1 runs empty.

That's a reasonable plan!

Questions:

1. What do you intend to do with your first gun when it is no longer in use (or fully functional)?
2. Have you practiced your answer to #1?
3. Have you practiced your answer to #1 in live fire?

 

[Coach]

Throw it in the gravel

 

[KellyinAvon]

You raise a good point.

Drive through or by any college campus and you'll see a large percentage of the students walking with earbuds in their ears and their faces in their mobile phones. Change that to after dark and doing it alone and it's a recipe for unpleasant outcomes. It's shocking to see how many girls are out and about by themselves at night and completely oblivious to any sensory information that might give them enough time to avoid tragedy because they can't live 5 minutes with the earbuds and the screen.

A couple years ago before they put in the crosswalk stop lights on IUPUI I was traveling west on Michigan Street probably around Noon. This kid walked out in front of me, dry blacktop and anti-lock brakes are why the kid didn't take a trip to Eskenazi. When you don't hear the BARK-BARK-BARK of the tires getting closer? There's a problem with volume.

On a treadmill I'll use earbuds. Out on the sidewalk or on a trail? Nope! My hearing is not great (or even good), I need all the hearing I've got left to maintain anything near SA.

 

[bwframe]

My brother sent me a set of these bone conduction headphones. I would have never considered them myself, but I'm pretty impressed so far. They don't cover your ears, allowing you to hear fairly normally while listening to them.

These may well be a solution to staying SA while listening to your electronics. Icing on the cake is that, according to folks I have conversed with, the dual microphones sound very good on the other end of phone calls.

Part of their advertising is "awareness."

AfterShokz Trekz Titanium Open-Ear Wireless Bone Conduction Headphones

 

[Rookie]

I use those headphones almost every day at work. I've been very impressed with them.

 

[rhino]

Throw it in the gravel

Or sand, grass, concrete . . .

 

[Coach]

With the exception of while jogging as my current runner's pack doesn't have room for a reload for my Shield, yes. My normal carry (as in, while not engaged in activities that preclude it) is still strong side carried Glock 17M and a spare magazine. The Shield has replaced my LCR as my backup.



Depends. I've done both. After my police action I knew I still had 28 in the gun and knew the gun was running fine. I saw no reason to reload in that situation and have a single shot for even a small amount of time, just in case things kicked off again. I have also seen (in training, competition, and real world) flubbed reloads where a functional firearm was taken out of service for, in gunfight terms, a lengthy period of time and the person's attention was then drawn to the gun instead of the problem as they tried to rectify it

Contrast to shooting the pitbull that latched on to my arm while jogging and then being confronted by the owners. Once more pressing tasks were accomplished, I used a speed strip to replace the fired cartridge. "More pressing" was assessing my injuries, calling 911, verbally de-escalating with the owner (who I later learned was a burglar and felon), and only then did reloading get it's turn.

Note in neither case did it affect the outcome.



No. The plan is disciplined and effective fire. What I've seen for people who shot their gun dry was a failure of both almost without fail. They ran the gun faster than their abilities, took multiple low probability shots (sometimes even at targets that were no longer even visible), and/or failed to complete the next cycle of the OODA loop and recognize the fight was over. As such they fired a lot of rounds that missed, were marginal hits, or were shooting at a corpse or fleeing suspect until the gun went dry. I've satisfied myself through both training and experience that I can resist the urge to run the gun like a sewing machine, can hold my fire until I have a high probability target, put effective hits on the target, then recognize the fight is over. As such, I'm fine with a partially loaded gun until I'm pretty danged sure I've got time and opportunity to reload with no consequences if I'm interrupted. The exception would be a tube fed shotgun where an aborted reload only costs you the shell you drop and doesn't affect the readiness of the gun.



No. My awareness of my surroundings is significantly more important to my survival than the number of rounds left in the gun. Even if I have two rounds left, my odds of successfully engaging another threat I'm aware of with two rounds is exponentially higher than my odds of successfully engaging a threat I'm unaware of with a fully loaded gun. You can make a pretty good argument for doing both at the same time, hanging your hat on the fact your reload probably won't take more time than your "OOD" time from the OODA loop and by the time you get back to "A" your gun is up again...assuming no bobbles of the reload. Self-awareness of your own skills and reaction to post-shooting stress can change that answer. I know how hard it is for me personally to break out of tunnel vision and the amount of concentration required to actually see vs just look around, so unless I execute the reload subconsciously I won't be tying up any conscious brain power until post-scan.


At this point, I'm more concerned with finding a way to carry a good tourniquet than more ammunition. I've been carrying a RAT, which is easy to pocket or ankle carry. I've learned that it's apparently not that great for adults, and the larger the adult the less effective it is. Probably better off as it's own thread, but finding a way to carry an effective tourniquet I can reach with either hand is probably my highest reward change to EDC at the moment. I'm experimenting with a belt carried small-of-the-back holder for the SOFT-T but am not impressed so far.

So finally getting home and reading this again. It seems you disagree but now it seems you did it in the dog situation.

The thread has been successful turned to SA, which has never in my mind been in doubt as essential.

Disciplined fire is also essential. Everything I do in practice and in competition has the goal of making every shot count. One benefit of this approach is that when I get my gun out to shoot I only do it one way. So I can be doing what I normally do with a gun without having to think about it.

I have seen several hundred people run their gun dry with no thought of topping off in training. What are they going to do for real? History says what they do in practice.

Just wanted to put this possible issue in people's minds and on their radar. Every situation is unique. People need to decide for themselves.

I like this concept of best possible condition. The ONE time I have implemented it on the firing line it worked very well.

In your line of duty shooting you had friends in the area and on the way. That does make a difference. If you were 45 minutes from help like where I live. Perhaps the tactics would/ should be different.

When I heard I reload if I shoot 1 round it caught my attention. It is hard to argue with experience. It is harder to argue with repeated experience.

What does one do when the experiences conflict?

Rational decisions must be made.

Btw I have a dog problem on my walking route. There are three of them at one place. Hoping to avoid any latched on situations.

 

[rhino]

I have seen several hundred people run their gun dry with no thought of topping off in training. What are they going to do for real? History says what they do in practice.

I'm especially frustrated when I see people holster empty guns while training when they clearly have at least one loaded magazine on their person. I don't know if it's worse with the slide locked back or if they take the time to deliberately release the slide, then holster their unloaded gun.

Sometimes that arises from the person's primary or only experience being from shooting sports that require cold ranges. We've all seen experienced USPSA and/or IDPA shooters unload and reholster after a repetition of a drill. Most of those people can break that bad habit if they choose. It's a different issue for people who are just not concerned about the status of their weapon.

I'd like to add something I've said before to my friends and colleagues who shoot the gun games frequently. When you have concluded a course of fire, it is in your best interests to stop automatically starting the unload and show clear procedure as soon as you are finished. You will be better served in life if you wait until you are directed to unload, etc. by the ranger officer and do each step at their command and not by rote. In addition to minimizing a "training scar," it's safer to be more deliberate about the process. I like to practice my "scanning" after I am done by looking at the targets and ensuring that they have holes in them (whether I start shooting again or not if I see a miss is a different conversation) while I am waiting for the "If you are finished . . ." and then I go through the steps as commanded. I do not want unloading and holstering to be a conditioned response.

 

[Trapper Jim]

I'm especially frustrated when I see people holster empty guns while training when they clearly have at least one loaded magazine on their person. I don't know if it's worse with the slide locked back or if they take the time to deliberately release the slide, then holster their unloaded gun.

Sometimes that arises from the person's primary or only experience being from shooting sports that require cold ranges. We've all seen experienced USPSA and/or IDPA shooters unload and reholster after a repetition of a drill. Most of those people can break that bad habit if they choose. It's a different issue for people who are just not concerned about the status of their weapon.

I'd like to add something I've said before to my friends and colleagues who shoot the gun games frequently. When you have concluded a course of fire, it is in your best interests to stop automatically starting the unload and show clear procedure as soon as you are finished. You will be better served in life if you wait until you are directed to unload, etc. by the ranger officer and do each step at their command and not by rote. In addition to minimizing a "training scar," it's safer to be more deliberate about the process. I like to practice my "scanning" after I am done by looking at the targets and ensuring that they have holes in them (whether I start shooting again or not if I see a miss is a different conversation) while I am waiting for the "If you are finished . . ." and then I go through the steps as commanded. I do not want unloading and holstering to be a conditioned response.

Right on the money. When We first started shooting IDPA some of us would recharge our firearm while scanning. It added nothing to the time but got in a good practice move.

Ammo acrobats that ULASC are missing the point IMHO

 

[Coach]

Training scars of various forms are probably where there is the most validity to the shooting sports will get you killed on the street. One of those is holstering or scanning with an empty gun, which is why I brought it up here and included a possible solution as well.

 

[jkdbjj]

I carry a RAT, but know others who like these ankle kits for tourniquets:


https://www.narescue.com/ankle-trauma-holster.html

That one has some extra med stuff on it, might make it bulkier than you need.

At this point, I'm more concerned with finding a way to carry a good tourniquet than more ammunition. I've been carrying a RAT, which is easy to pocket or ankle carry. I've learned that it's apparently not that great for adults, and the larger the adult the less effective it is. Probably better off as it's own thread, but finding a way to carry an effective tourniquet I can reach with either hand is probably my highest reward change to EDC at the moment. I'm experimenting with a belt carried small-of-the-back holder for the SOFT-T but am not impressed so far.[/QUOTE]

 

[cedartop]

I'm especially frustrated when I see people holster empty guns while training when they clearly have at least one loaded magazine on their person. I don't know if it's worse with the slide locked back or if they take the time to deliberately release the slide, then holster their unloaded gun.

Sometimes that arises from the person's primary or only experience being from shooting sports that require cold ranges. We've all seen experienced USPSA and/or IDPA shooters unload and reholster after a repetition of a drill. Most of those people can break that bad habit if they choose. It's a different issue for people who are just not concerned about the status of their weapon.

I'd like to add something I've said before to my friends and colleagues who shoot the gun games frequently. When you have concluded a course of fire, it is in your best interests to stop automatically starting the unload and show clear procedure as soon as you are finished. You will be better served in life if you wait until you are directed to unload, etc. by the ranger officer and do each step at their command and not by rote. In addition to minimizing a "training scar," it's safer to be more deliberate about the process. I like to practice my "scanning" after I am done by looking at the targets and ensuring that they have holes in them (whether I start shooting again or not if I see a miss is a different conversation) while I am waiting for the "If you are finished . . ." and then I go through the steps as commanded. I do not want unloading and holstering to be a conditioned response.

From my understanding in another thread here that seemed to contribute to an ND. At least that is what it read like.

 

[cedartop]

I carry a RAT, but know others who like these ankle kits for tourniquets:


https://www.narescue.com/ankle-trauma-holster.html

That one has some extra med stuff on it, might make it bulkier than you need.

At this point, I'm more concerned with finding a way to carry a good tourniquet than more ammunition. I've been carrying a RAT, which is easy to pocket or ankle carry. I've learned that it's apparently not that great for adults, and the larger the adult the less effective it is. Probably better off as it's own thread, but finding a way to carry an effective tourniquet I can reach with either hand is probably my highest reward change to EDC at the moment. I'm experimenting with a belt carried small-of-the-back holder for the SOFT-T but am not impressed so far.

[/QUOTE]

I realize we are in thread drift territory here but as you indicate, the RATS is not well thought of by most who are in the know (I am not one of those but I do follow them). As to it being more important than a reload, I thought that for a while too but then realized of all the medical emergencies I have dealt with as a regular guy, none of them came close to requiring a TQ. Not that I would ever discourage anyone from carrying one.

 

[2A_Tom]

I carry a RAT, but know others who like these ankle kits for tourniquets:


https://www.narescue.com/ankle-trauma-holster.html

That one has some extra med stuff on it, might make it bulkier than you need.

At this point, I'm more concerned with finding a way to carry a good tourniquet than more ammunition. I've been carrying a RAT, which is easy to pocket or ankle carry. I've learned that it's apparently not that great for adults, and the larger the adult the less effective it is. Probably better off as it's own thread, but finding a way to carry an effective tourniquet I can reach with either hand is probably my highest reward change to EDC at the moment. I'm experimenting with a belt carried small-of-the-back holder for the SOFT-T but am not impressed so far.

[/QUOTE]

You may want to check out this thread, it covers a lot.

[h=1]Life saving First Aid in a mass casualty situation.[/h]

 

[2A_Tom]

Possibly in training, after each evolution, we should ask ourselves or your students, "What is the condition of your gun?"

This could be a great way to improve our mindset.

 

[bwframe]

A year or two back, I picked up a couple more (hi-vis colored) RATS to sprinkle around, because that's what BBI stated he carried. No complaints though and as always, thanks to BBI for his professional advice. Looking forward to what see TQ/carry system he settles on.



Back to the reload thing, a "training scar" that I developed over the years, while shooting a lower capacity gun, was to reload at any given oportunity. In between drills, the gun was always re-holstered fully loaded.

Given the option, why put a partially loaded gun in the holster when you could do otherwise?

 

[2A_Tom]

I posted the thread that that is discussed in. Please keep on gun training. I know I am an

 

[BillD]

Since my EDC is my EDC, it's reloaded before reholstering. Not much good having an unloaded EDC.
I assume the fight will determine your reload. If you're in a fight you won't reload until your gun's empty or the threat is gone. And then you'll be desperate to get it loaded. Since the vast majority of us have never fired a gun in anger and those that have probably did it while they were suited up to go to war, we can tell ourselves we're going to reload here or there or after the threat is removed but we really won't know until it happens if it ever happens.

I've watched a lot of gunfights on video. I've seen very few lulls where somebody could reload .

I understand this is talk about training and you fight like you train. I would assume the best practice would be to reload your gun every time it's empty or low on ammo. Which you can do with your to go guns. It's something else to do with guns that are going to go back home and be put in the safe when you leave the range.

To go guns= guns you keep on or around you for SD. Truck guns, etc.
YMMV