What makes our rights ours?

[88GT]

Rights are simply the ability to act in one's own interest. How did you "get" those? By being. Remember Descartes? "I think therefore I am." Rights sort of follow that: I am therefore I can act. Your ability to act as a natural being is determined by two things: your will/desire ("Do I want to do that?") and whether or not you are strong enough to overcome someone trying to stop you physically. THAT is where our rights come from. By being, existing. We breathe, we move, we are sentient, and we are free to seek our own destiny as we see fit.

Now, enter society. Your rights don't change. Except that you voluntarily agree not to exercise all of them in the absolute so that your rights don't create a conflict with another person trying to exercise his rights. This is the "swinging fist meets nose" concept.

Since some people won't comply with that voluntary infringement, we have to make laws to limit them. We make laws so that we have legal grounds to punish offenders, since we can't willy nilly punish them or we'd be violating their rights.

Because laws are government and government infringes on rights, even if justly, some people erroneously think that all behavior is governed (granted) by the government and what is allowed is allowed because government said so (or hasn't criminalized it yet). Practically, that may be the societal result, but it is not the philosophical reality.

It's interesting to see the evolution (no pun intended) of the higher levels of thinking within the membership of INGO. When asked about where our rights come from, most people start at the last part of the story. The more evolved one is in one's reasoning skills, the farther back he will be able to go to find the answer.

 

[Denny347]

Rights are simply the ability to act in one's own interest. How did you "get" those? By being. Remember Descartes? "I think therefore I am." Rights sort of follow that: I am therefore I can act. Your ability to act as a natural being is determined by two things: your will/desire ("Do I want to do that?") and whether or not you are strong enough to overcome someone trying to stop you physically. THAT is where our rights come from. By being, existing. We breathe, we move, we are sentient, and we are free to seek our own destiny as we see fit.

Now, enter society. Your rights don't change. Except that you voluntarily agree not to exercise all of them in the absolute so that your rights don't create a conflict with another person trying to exercise his rights. This is the "swinging fist meets nose" concept.

Since some people won't comply with that voluntary infringement, we have to make laws to limit them. We make laws so that we have legal grounds to punish offenders, since we can't willy nilly punish them or we'd be violating their rights.

Because laws are government and government infringes on rights, even if justly, some people erroneously think that all behavior is governed (granted) by the government and what is allowed is allowed because government said so (or hasn't criminalized it yet). Practically, that may be the societal result, but it is not the philosophical reality.

It's interesting to see the evolution (no pun intended) of the higher levels of thinking within the membership of INGO. When asked about where our rights come from, most people start at the last part of the story. The more evolved one is in one's reasoning skills, the farther back he will be able to go to find the answer.

I have trouble putting my thoughts to appropriate words at times. This is a PERFECT summation of my thoughts on the matter.

 

[rambone]

So you guys don't think that rights are whatever 51% of the public says they are?

 

[jamil]

Rights are simply the ability to act in one's own interest. How did you "get" those? By being. Remember Descartes? "I think therefore I am." Rights sort of follow that: I am therefore I can act. Your ability to act as a natural being is determined by two things: your will/desire ("Do I want to do that?") and whether or not you are strong enough to overcome someone trying to stop you physically. THAT is where our rights come from. By being, existing. We breathe, we move, we are sentient, and we are free to seek our own destiny as we see fit.

Now, enter society. Your rights don't change. Except that you voluntarily agree not to exercise all of them in the absolute so that your rights don't create a conflict with another person trying to exercise his rights. This is the "swinging fist meets nose" concept.

Since some people won't comply with that voluntary infringement, we have to make laws to limit them. We make laws so that we have legal grounds to punish offenders, since we can't willy nilly punish them or we'd be violating their rights.

Because laws are government and government infringes on rights, even if justly, some people erroneously think that all behavior is governed (granted) by the government and what is allowed is allowed because government said so (or hasn't criminalized it yet). Practically, that may be the societal result, but it is not the philosophical reality.

It's interesting to see the evolution (no pun intended) of the higher levels of thinking within the membership of INGO. When asked about where our rights come from, most people start at the last part of the story. The more evolved one is in one's reasoning skills, the farther back he will be able to go to find the answer.

Wow. I'm not sure when they quit teaching it, but this exact idea was taught in high school civics as late as the mid 70s. In fact, you may have channeled my civics teacher, oh damn I can't remember his name. But I can almost hear his staccato voice in these words.

 

[jamil]

So you guys don't think that rights are whatever 51% of the public says they are?

As an ideological or philosophical matter, no. However, in practice, it is what it is. Even a constitution that spells it out in no uncertain terms can't protect individual natural rights from an uninformed popular culture.

 

[IndyDave1776]

So you guys don't think that rights are whatever 51% of the public says they are?

Democracy reduced to its fundamental form! It is scary the people who would subscribe to this notion. Scarier yet it that it is the cloth from which we cut the scariest form of tyranny, that executed by 51% vote given that democracy is by its nature unlimited government.

 

[level.eleven]

If the second person tried to take food from the first person, would first person have the right to keep what's rightfully theirs ??

Its a basic concept that has existed since the beginning of time
Just because humans didn't necessarily decide to vehently defend the rights until much later in time doesn't mean they didn't exist.

Just saying.

Yes, groundwork. The taking of food is an excellent example. Lets reduce that notion. It isn't a right until it can be vehemently defended. By everyone.

 

[jbombelli]

Yes, groundwork. The taking of food is an excellent example. Lets reduce that notion. It isn't a right until it can be vehemently defended. By everyone.

So by extension, the moment a significant percentage of the population wants to strip us of our right to, shall we say, keep and bear arms, it's no longer a right? Once people want to take it from you they can do it?

You're basically saying that there's no such thing as rights - only revocable privileges?

 

[daddymikey1975]

Yes, groundwork. The taking of food is an excellent example. Lets reduce that notion. It isn't a right until it can be vehemently defended. By everyone.

So if less than everyone realizes or recognizes it, does that right not exist for the one man that DOES realize it and chooses to defend it?

That one man standing his ground could be fighting in the interest of the few that haven't woke up yet.

Tell me you don't believe what I quoted up there.

 

[jmiller676]

What makes our rights rights?
Who gave them to us??
(this is just a thought I had, then I couldn't answer it well enough to suit myself. But I'm hard to convince)

The 5000 year leap will explain every question you have