what would happen if I shot a guy who was shooting at police

[Wolfhound]

With no disrespect meant towards police officers it is my opinion that producing a weapon and entering into an active gunfight which involves law enforcement would come with a very high likely hood of being shot by law enforcement. Either those on scene or the human wave of officers responding to assist. Adrenaline would be pumping and their mission would be to assist or save the officer(s) involved.

Anyone not wearing a uniform and holding a firearm would most likely be considered hostile and dealt with accordingly.

I would compare it to Iraq or Afghanistan. If troops are attacked by insurgents anyone in civilian clothes holding a firearm is considered a badguy.

Gunfights are.chaos

Let me add that I would defend any innocent person if law enforcement was not on scene already to assist.

 

[Mark 1911]

There was a story a few months back about a guy in Texas who shot at someone who was shooting at the cops. Not sure if the cops ever got around to thanking him after they picked him off the ground, dusted him off, and un-cuffed him.

10mm Snack Pack posted the vid (see Post #32 above).

 

[LarryC]

Well I guess I am too old to worry about the legalities. If I saw an officer in danger, was in a position to help - he will be helped. If a BG with a gun is threatening ANY innocent citizen and I can get him in my sights - the threat will cease. I may have to worry about legal actions later, but that's ok. I would rather make my case to a Jury than live with the fact I allowed an innocent or LEO (who may also be an innocent) be shot by a BG when I could have prevented it. Certainly there are actions that would have to be taken immediately after the fact, laying down the firearm and identifying myself. Now this does not mean I would join into a police action with a criminal if several police were involved and none in immediate danger.

 

[Small's]

LarryC i couldnt have said it any better. **** on legallity of it. If someones life is in danger and i can stop the threat them im gonna do it. It would be hard to live with yourself if you just sat on your rear and watched a officer or anyone getting killed

 

[fw501]

Well, this very much depends because you could very possibly end up being shot at by police as well. I mean, if you walk up and get behind a squad car with one of the officers that might be a different story, but if you're off to the side and then just start shooting, cops could possibly see you as a threat to them.

That's not even mentioning the probable **** storm you would get in legally if you didn't get shot.

Bad idea! As a LEO, if I'm exchanging gunfire and someone comes up behind me with a gun they are gonna get shot!

 

[Expat]

I understood it perfectly, but that is extremely typical since the majority of INGO's members hate the police.

If I was a typical cop hater my choice would be
1. join in and shoot at the cops or
2. move on and ignore the situation
certainly not ask who it was.

I have always been generally supportive of LEOs on here and have never been accused of being a basher. I have said long before you ever showed up here that I thought there were way too many cop bashing threads. I have just gotten to the point I avoid the conversations as they are just never ending. I thought it obvious that my comment was made in jest as most of my comments are. I find most people on here take themselves way too seriously and get way too wound up. There are several members here of current and former law enforcement that I would love to meet up with in person to have a beer with and/or go shooting with. I would also say you weaken your argument about not lumping all LEOs in when some chucklehead does something stupid, when you want to lump all of the members here in together because there is a group that you find to be idiots.

 

[Tinner666]

Well I guess I am too old to worry about the legalities. If I saw an officer in danger, was in a position to help - he will be helped. If a BG with a gun is threatening ANY innocent citizen and I can get him in my sights - the threat will cease. I may have to worry about legal actions later, but that's ok. I would rather make my case to a Jury than live with the fact I allowed an innocent or LEO (who may also be an innocent) be shot by a BG when I could have prevented it. Certainly there are actions that would have to be taken immediately after the fact, laying down the firearm and identifying myself. Now this does not mean I would join into a police action with a criminal if several police were involved and none in immediate danger.

I was trying to think of a way to word it for me. LarryC did a good job. I've been in similar situations, and once hollered "DROP IT! POLICE!" so they were warned in time. It was slightly illegal, but it gave the cops pause when they saw me aiming and they had a second to decide who to shoot. The perp ran like a rabbit, I went to SUL and then holstered. Their backs were turned when he drew on them. It wasn't like I was portraying an officer for an illegal reason. There were no hassles.
I've also been the only other person on scene with one officer before and covered the LEO's back with my pistol. There was no issue either when all the others finally got there.
Our officers can not do it all and they have to go into dangerous situations every day. Any help we can give them shows them that us civilians care. If they all thought nobody gave a crap, they might all one day quit.
Show our LEO's some respect and help out if they are in peril. I'd want somebody to back my play if I was an officer.

 

[Sylvain]

I understood it perfectly, but that is extremely typical since the majority of INGO's members hate the police.

Really? The majority of INGO?
I must have missed the poll where we were asked if we hate the police or not.

 

[atalon]

Armed Citizen in TX Stops Shooting Spree and Saves Cop by Making 150+ Yard Shot With a Pistol : The Jack Blood Show

hehe someone beat me to it

Really your job as a responsible gun owner is to stay out of the Police's way unless it looks like they are in trouble. Or you are asked to help of course.

 

[Miles42]

Depends on the situation. If I though the officer was in danger I would not hesitate to assist. If other officers came to respond I would quickly lay down the weapon.

 

[freekforge]

I think that if they are shooting at the cops it would be in defense of a third party now whether or not the LEOs see you as a threat is a different story

 

[jfryan]

IC 35-44.1-3-3
Refusal to aid an officer
Sec. 3. A person who, when ordered by a law enforcement officer to assist the officer in the execution of the officer's duties, knowingly or intentionally, and without a reasonable cause, refuses to assist commits refusal to aid an officer, a Class B misdemeanor.

There's the difference though. If a LEO tells you to help him & you don't you're in trouble... doesn't cover taking it upon yourself to join in.

 

[bwframe]

shooting at and making a shot??? same thing...

No it's not. Maybe in Iraq, but not in your own neighborhood.

 

[jedi]

Nope not my job to help the police

 

[vanillagorilla]

Good thing the police have the same option not to help, Oh wait, that is their job. In most places it is a very, very underpaid job too. And for those of you who don't think highly of police in general, I have seen crappy garbage men and every once in a while my waiter sucks too. Not all LE are bad and they would lay down their own life to protect yours. We are a country of laws. The same laws that allow you carry that weapon also protect others by way of police. They are not evil, most of the time they are moms and dads doing the best they can for their community.

A lot of people who claim patriotism and would never put down a soldier would spit in the direction of the local cop because they went to school together and thought he was a tool back then. Guess what, people change. You want to shock a cop, thank him/her for their service. It would be a change from the insults and comments they daily get from the people they try to help. AND yes you were speeding and people get killed from accidents caused by speed (more people die that way then gun violence). AND yes we will try and find the person that took your playstation but this is the real world not CSI, things don't get solved in an hour, if solved at all.

Now for the practical information. The police do not need help in a gun fight unless there is only one of them and he is losing, then by all means HELP! But as others have said, if back up is on the way you could very easily be confused as another bad guy. Questions are asked after the bullets stop. Then again what do I know, I'm just a flatfoot.

 

[LarryC]

Good thing the police have the same option not to help, Oh wait, that is their job. In most places it is a very, very underpaid job too. And for those of you who don't think highly of police in general, I have seen crappy garbage men and every once in a while my waiter sucks too. Not all LE are bad and they would lay down their own life to protect yours. We are a country of laws. The same laws that allow you carry that weapon also protect others by way of police. They are not evil, most of the time they are moms and dads doing the best they can for their community.

A lot of people who claim patriotism and would never put down a soldier would spit in the direction of the local cop because they went to school together and thought he was a tool back then. Guess what, people change. You want to shock a cop, thank him/her for their service. It would be a change from the insults and comments they daily get from the people they try to help. AND yes you were speeding and people get killed from accidents caused by speed (more people die that way then gun violence). AND yes we will try and find the person that took your playstation but this is the real world not CSI, things don't get solved in an hour, if solved at all.

Now for the practical information. The police do not need help in a gun fight unless there is only one of them and he is losing, then by all means HELP! But as others have said, if back up is on the way you could very easily be confused as another bad guy. Questions are asked after the bullets stop. Then again what do I know, I'm just a flatfoot.

First, Thanks for your service! However I do have one disagreement with you regarding "speeding". A few years ago we had a 55 mile speed limit, many, many people said that if we raised the limit it would really increase the highway deaths - DIDN'T HAPPEN.

The other issue is that in most cases where speeding tickets are issued, they are not looking to prevent accidents - they are for revenue. About 15 years ago an Engineering magazine editor was ticketed for speeding. As an exercise to validate his suspicions, he did a nation wide study. The results were quite enlightening! The data collected from public records proved that 90+ percent of the traffic citations issued for speeding were in areas that had virtually no fatalities or even a high incidents of accidents. On the other hand those areas where fatalities did occur had very few citations issued.

It was apparent that the vast majority of speeding tickets were issued where roads were clear, near speed limit changes or had speed limits that were obviously below what the majority of drivers felt were below safe speeds (the drivers were proven right as very few if any accidents occurred in those areas).

Now I have stated before I do not blame the LEO's assigned to do this onerous duty, rather I blame the supervision and policies of the States, cities, and towns that condone this action. Those LEO's could be assigned to duties that help prevent robberies, etc. in areas that need patrols or could be used to investigate "minor crimes" such as car break-ins, vandalism etc, that is currently "reported and forgotten".

I believe many people that become criminals would be deterred from that life if arrested early in their career and shown the error of their ways.

 

[TheReaper]

First, Thanks for your service! However I do have one disagreement with you regarding "speeding". A few years ago we had a 55 mile speed limit, many, many people said that if we raised the limit it would really increase the highway deaths - DIDN'T HAPPEN.

The other issue is that in most cases where speeding tickets are issued, they are not looking to prevent accidents - they are for revenue. About 15 years ago an Engineering magazine editor was ticketed for speeding. As an exercise to validate his suspicions, he did a nation wide study. The results were quite enlightening! The data collected from public records proved that 90+ percent of the traffic citations issued for speeding were in areas that had virtually no fatalities or even a high incidents of accidents. On the other hand those areas where fatalities did occur had very few citations issued.

It was apparent that the vast majority of speeding tickets were issued where roads were clear, near speed limit changes or had speed limits that were obviously below what the majority of drivers felt were below safe speeds (the drivers were proven right as very few if any accidents occurred in those areas).

Now I have stated before I do not blame the LEO's assigned to do this onerous duty, rather I blame the supervision and policies of the States, cities, and towns that condone this action. Those LEO's could be assigned to duties that help prevent robberies, etc. in areas that need patrols or could be used to investigate "minor crimes" such as car break-ins, vandalism etc, that is currently "reported and forgotten".

I believe many people that become criminals would be deterred from that life if arrested early in their career and shown the error of their ways.

There is so much failure here it's amazing.

 

[vanillagorilla]

Have no problem with your stats or assertions. But who ever people voted for set the laws. It is not the police officer fault only his job. If you show me an LE who only wants to write tickets, I will show you a lazy LE.

Many, many arrests come from traffic stops for mundane reasons. That's why there aren't more DUI deaths, drugs and other problems. The traffic stop is just the probable cause to make sure other, more deadly or illegal things aren't going on.

P.S. Would you agree there are some drivers not mentally equipped to drive over a certain speed? Have you ever been out after the first snow?

 

[AD Marc]

Boston Marathon manhunt: Looking back through the "fog of war" - CBS News

...officers firing on a Massachusetts State Police SUV that was occupied by another police officer and an FBI agent.

So, how confident are all of you in your ability to size up the situation and make snap judgments on who is to be on the receiving end of your use of lethal force? If you answer anything other than "not very confident," you're probably kidding yourself.

Don't try to be a hero.

 

[11-B]

Boston Marathon manhunt: Looking back through the "fog of war" - CBS News



So, how confident are all of you in your ability to size up the situation and make snap judgments on who is to be on the receiving end of your use of lethal force? If you answer anything other than "not very confident," you're probably kidding yourself.

Don't try to be a hero.

I used to do that for a living...I am very confident.....watch the story the guy saw a bomb by their feet or do LEOs now carry pressure cooker bombs too?