Where do rights come from?

[2A_Tom]

That is your opinion and you will have to live with it!

 

[PaulF]

I don’t know, that just doesn’t go deep enough for me. The German society under Hitler cooperatively killed millions. The Russian society under Stalin cooperatively killed millions. The Chinese society under Mao cooperatively killed millions. That’s not like inconvenience with a restrictive government, that’s dead. It’s not like you think, oh well that society determined their level of cooperation. Good for them. Let them be. There’s an underlying foundation that you know that’s wrong, that’s what I’m interested in. The cooperative society context just doesn’t work for me, and I make it a point to not use religious arguments when I’m speaking about government/political thing because who cares.

I think, absent of relevant cultural (social) indicators, you actually don't know that.

Is killing your neighbor wrong? Well...sometimes it is...but we are able to come up with all kinds of justifications for doing just that. Think about how the natives of this continent were treated by our forefathers...justified by the needs of our nascent country. Think about how the early Hebrews treated the Midians...justified because their god granted them the land.

Think about how we allow our government to treat people held in their custody today.

I think our sense of right and wrong is more cultural than instinctual. We are all born with a natural ability for empathy, but our willingness to apply it is largely - perhaps even totally- culturally dependent.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

I think, absent of relevant cultural (social) indicators, you actually don't know that.

Is killing your neighbor wrong? Well...sometimes it is...but we are able to come up with all kinds of justifications for doing just that. Think about how the natives of this continent were treated by our forefathers...justified by the needs of our nascent country. Think about how the early Hebrews treated the Midians...justified because their god granted them the land.

Think about how we allow our government to treat people held in their custody today.

I think our sense of right and wrong is more cultural than instinctual. We are all born with a natural ability for empathy, but our willingness to apply it is largely - perhaps even totally- culturally dependent.

Would you say then that you’re unwilling to condemn those past genocidal regimes? Because who really knows what’s right or wrong?

 

[nonobaddog]

I think, absent of relevant cultural (social) indicators, you actually don't know that.

Is killing your neighbor wrong? Well...sometimes it is...but we are able to come up with all kinds of justifications for doing just that. Think about how the natives of this continent were treated by our forefathers...justified by the needs of our nascent country. Think about how the early Hebrews treated the Midians...justified because their god granted them the land.

Think about how we allow our government to treat people held in their custody today.

I think our sense of right and wrong is more cultural than instinctual. We are all born with a natural ability for empathy, but our willingness to apply it is largely - perhaps even totally- culturally dependent.

It depends on the right and wrong. I think sane people instinctively know killing is wrong. I think they knew it was wrong even before the Commandments. That doesn't stop people from doing the wrong but that is why they always need to justify it to themselves.
Now parking without feeding the meter is wrong but that is purely a cultural thing.

 

[Jludo]

Edx.org is hosting Harvard's first year/intro to political 'Justice' it tries to tackle this question.
It's a tad dated, 2009 I think, but still interesting as the philosophers and ideas haven't changed much.

https://www.edx.org/course/justice-2

 

[Jludo]

Would you say then that you’re unwilling to condemn those past genocidal regimes? Because who really knows what’s right or wrong?

You can't condemn biblical genocide can you? If God commanded it it must be moral?

 

[ChristianPatriot]

You can't condemn biblical genocide can you? If God commanded it it must be moral?

I’d love to talk about that. Over here.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...gious-discussion-all-things-christianity.html

Trying to keep this discussion as political/non-religious as possible.

 

[Jludo]

I’d love to talk about that. Over here.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...gious-discussion-all-things-christianity.html

Trying to keep this discussion as political/non-religious as possible.

I think if we are talking about where rights come from, a fair amount here believe they come from God, it's a valid political debate. Admittedly it's blurry but if rights come from God this is where they intersect with politics.

 

[NKBJ]

You can't condemn biblical genocide can you? If God commanded it it must be moral?

Ever wonder if genocide is how you correct the gene pool?

 

[NKBJ]

Trying to keep a political discussion non-religious?
Why that's un-American. That's like having a banana split without chocolate sauce.

 

[jamil]

I think, absent of relevant cultural (social) indicators, you actually don't know that.

Is killing your neighbor wrong? Well...sometimes it is...but we are able to come up with all kinds of justifications for doing just that. Think about how the natives of this continent were treated by our forefathers...justified by the needs of our nascent country. Think about how the early Hebrews treated the Midians...justified because their god granted them the land.

Think about how we allow our government to treat people held in their custody today.

I think our sense of right and wrong is more cultural than instinctual. We are all born with a natural ability for empathy, but our willingness to apply it is largely - perhaps even totally- culturally dependent.

Much of our sense of right and wrong is cultural and instinctual. It is morally wrong to eat food with your left hand in some cultures, for example. But there are some moral absolutes. In just about every culture, it’s “wrong” to kill a person unjustly. But what constitutes “justly” depends a lot on that culture.

However, I think it’s reasonable to think that what makes some moral institutions more important than others depends on something more innate: moral foundations. And this appears to be at least a little more nature than nurture. Here I’m saying “innate” means prewired, not hardwired. So some cultures evolved with people who prioritize some moral foundations over others. If you’re prewired to prioritized sanctity, then it’s more likely to create social morals, like not eating with the same hand you use to wipe your ass. Right hand is for eating. Left hand is for cleaning your ass.

But, killing your neighbor is wrong in about every culture unless it’s a just killing. He dishonored your family, in some cultures, justifies killing. Maybe what makes some morals more absolute is that they evolve no matter which moral foundation is more dominant.

 

[jamil]

Back to where rights come from. I’ll agree that natural rights are derived from morals. It wasn’t until people developed a stronger sense of some moral foundation that the concept of natural rights was discovered. Yes. I said discovered not concocted. In other words, any society of humans, given a development of specific moral foundations, will eventually evolve their morals to believe that every human has inalienable rights that follow the underlying moral foundations. And then they’ll form societal structures to protect those rights. The dog wags the tail. The tail doesn’t wag the dog.

 

[T.Lex]

Ever wonder if genocide is how you correct the gene pool?

I, for one, am interested to hear more about this theory.

 

[2A_Tom]

Ever wonder if genocide is how you correct the gene pool?

I, for one, am interested to hear more about this theory.

Hitler thought so.

 

[JettaKnight]

Excerpt from, https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/hunting-in-judaism/ Jews and Guns Jewish law forbids hunting, and few Jews own firearms.

ETA: You need to read the whole article.

OK, I'm still not getting the connection to this topic. Maybe I'm just dense, so if you could explain it...

 

[2A_Tom]

That was days ago. it would help if you would look at what you were saying just before I posted.

 

[NKBJ]

Hitler thought so.

Well, yes, he did but you have to wonder if he ever had an original thought even before chemically expanding his consciousness. Concerning my previous question about genocide being used to correct gene pools, it's old hat; done forever. I asked it in conversation to the idea of whether the genocide described in scripture was moral or not (not that we are the authorities on that particular subject). And yes, I have wondered along with many others.

 

[T.Lex]

Well, yes, he did but you have to wonder if he ever had an original thought even before chemically expanding his consciousness. Concerning my previous question about genocide being used to correct gene pools, it's old hat; done forever. I asked it in conversation to the idea of whether the genocide described in scripture was moral or not (not that we are the authorities on that particular subject). And yes, I have wondered along with many others.

So, to borrow a phrase, it might be healthy to sometimes sprinkle the genetic tree with the blood of those of certain... characteristics?

Naturally, that begs the question of which characteristics should be removed. Any particular ones come to your mind?

 

[2A_Tom]

Well, yes, he did but you have to wonder if he ever had an original thought even before chemically expanding his consciousness. Concerning my previous question about genocide being used to correct gene pools, it's old hat; done forever. I asked it in conversation to the idea of whether the genocide described in scripture was moral or not (not that we are the authorities on that particular subject). And yes, I have wondered along with many others.

That is too complicated a subject to tackle here.

 

[nonobaddog]

I'd say genocide can alter a gene pool but I don't know about fixing it - after all you would be left with a higher percentage of people that believe in genocide.