White privilege 101

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  • Twangbanger

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    Oct 9, 2010
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    ...My position is that ignoring race will produce the very result Kut wants. Kut's a bit more authoritarian about it. But stating that you want that isn't the problem. It's how you go about it that's the problem. He wants to pay attention to race to make sure chance doesn't accidentally mess up the numbers...Each university has different departments. It's fair that they can decide what kind of university they are. Maybe they have a larger engineering school. Maybe they're primarily liberal arts focused. Maybe they have a large athletics program...

    I think this is getting fairly close to my perception of the issue.

    In my mind, I divide admissions requirements into two "buckets:" those based strictly on academic factors...and those based on "everything else." Studying the current case law on this subject, what you find is that Universities are given leeway or the authority to utilize non-academic factors in shaping what "kind" of University they want to be. And "race," in certain places and at certain times, has been allowed to be one of those factors. But this authority is not absolute. The degree to which race is allowed to be taken into account varies depending on the situation, and under certain circumstances, the voters of a state are even allowed to completely remove that leeway.

    That's where the Kuts of the world have a problem. In their opinion, on a scale of 0 to 100, the only value that race-based preferences should never be allowed to have is "zero." It always has to be some positive, nonzero value, in their opinion.

    But where I'm trying to take him to task, is in his assertion that if we've already allowed the camel's nose under the tent by allowing simian brutes into athletic programs, the floodgates have thus been opened to all sorts and levels of non-academic-based considerations in admission policies - and the concept of "zero consideration" has been forever stricken off the board when it comes to race-based diversity admissions policies. I'm attempting to point out that he's engaged in the fallacy of turning a quantitative phenomenon into a qualitative one. Allowing the Cro-Mags on the Football team admission to the University doesn't "shatter" the concept of academic-based admissions; it simply represents the Phys. Ed. department setting a different quantitative level of entry than the Medical, Scientific, or other fields. And thus, the little tiff he was trying to drive with Chris Pat is really a non-sequitur. A merit-based admissions policy simply does not require people in all fields of endeavor to demonstrate the same levels of academic merit.

    Essentially, what this is saying is that, in the absence of really, super-major extenuating circumstances, Universities ought to be able to set merit thresholds, and then let the admissions chips fall where they may. And if some people don't make the cut, they have the option to look elsewhere. Twangbanger didn't get into CalTech; so he went to Purdue and got the frick on with his life. And some people can't get into U of M, and they go to Michigan State instead, same with U.C. vs. Cal State, and so on, and so on. And as much as I may, as a native Buckeye, despise the University of Michigan come football season, I nonetheless respect the views of 58% of Michigan Initiative voters, who want to uphold the ability of that fine educational institution (and others in that state) to set a merit threshold, without being assailed by armies of lawyers and hauled in front of the Courts by the Obama Administration or other political panderers.
     

    jamil

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    Gtown-ish
    "And some people can't get into U of M, and they go to Michigan State instead"

    NO! Away with your sinful talk! I mean. That's almost as bad as going to that Ohio school.
     

    rhino

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    Mar 18, 2008
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    At my alma mater, they used to (may still, I don't know) allow admissions of a set number of local high schools students who did not necessarily have academic records or abilities that were competitive with the rest of the incoming class. Wabash College does the same thing (although I don't know if they admit it).

    I think private schools should be allowed to admit students based on whatever they choose (or don't) . . . as long as they're not also suckling from the taxpayers teat as most of them are.

    I think government owned and operated schools shouldn't exist.

    Problem solved! HAHA!
     

    jamil

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    At my alma mater, they used to (may still, I don't know) allow admissions of a set number of local high schools students who did not necessarily have academic records or abilities that were competitive with the rest of the incoming class. Wabash College does the same thing (although I don't know if they admit it).

    I think private schools should be allowed to admit students based on whatever they choose (or don't) . . . as long as they're not also suckling from the taxpayers teat as most of them are.

    I think government owned and operated schools shouldn't exist.

    Problem solved! HAHA!

    Shoulda/coulda/woulda.

    Realistically, public education is not going to go away. But I agree that private schools should be able to use whatever standards they want for enrollment. One area I might disagree on in nuance, is about "sucking from the taxpayers teat. I'm not aware of all the ways tax money might go to private schools. But I think I'd be opposed to a blanket statement which says *any* public funding disqualifies them from having their own standards. I think if a university gets a research grant from the government, that in itself should not force the school to adapt the same standards that apply to public schools.

    This example is hypothetical, I don't even know if there is such a thing, but to illustrate, say there's a private university that has a school of military studies, which is traditionally restricted to just males. I don't think they should be forced to start accepting females just because they get a grant to research something for the U.S. military. I think if they accept taxpayer money in broader contexts, then they have to accept the strings which connect to the Givernment. But for a services rendered kind of thing like research grants, I don't think the school's admission policies are any business of the government to change. Just like any other consumer of a service, if the granting agency doesn't like those policies, then don't give the grant to them.
     

    rhino

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    Shoulda/coulda/woulda.

    Realistically, public education is not going to go away. But I agree that private schools should be able to use whatever standards they want for enrollment. One area I might disagree on in nuance, is about "sucking from the taxpayers teat. I'm not aware of all the ways tax money might go to private schools. But I think I'd be opposed to a blanket statement which says *any* public funding disqualifies them from having their own standards. I think if a university gets a research grant from the government, that in itself should not force the school to adapt the same standards that apply to public schools.

    This example is hypothetical, I don't even know if there is such a thing, but to illustrate, say there's a private university that has a school of military studies, which is traditionally restricted to just males. I don't think they should be forced to start accepting females just because they get a grant to research something for the U.S. military. I think if they accept taxpayer money in broader contexts, then they have to accept the strings which connect to the Givernment. But for a services rendered kind of thing like research grants, I don't think the school's admission policies are any business of the government to change. Just like any other consumer of a service, if the granting agency doesn't like those policies, then don't give the grant to them.

    No disagreement from me.
     

    jamil

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    It not "that" Ohio school...It's "The" Ohio school....:)

    Is that like The U?

    If I didn't have eye glasses my eyes would roll clean out of my head every time I hear someone say that. "THE Ohio State". Yeah. Yeah. That's right. It's "THE" university where the penalty for driving too slow through campus is a degree. And "The U?" Really? What the ****, you can't spell "University of Miami" so you just shorten it to "The U"? The world is unimpressed boys.
     

    indiucky

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    If I didn't have eye glasses my eyes would roll clean out of my head every time I hear someone say that. "THE Ohio State". Yeah. Yeah. That's right. It's "THE" university where the penalty for driving too slow through campus is a degree. And "The U?" Really? What the ****, you can't spell "University of Miami" so you just shorten it to "The U"? The world is unimpressed boys.

    I have no dog in that hunt...I was just repeating something Tim Allen's wife said to him on Last Man Standing when he said "Ohio State"....It was funny and got the wished for eye roll....:)
     

    jamil

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    I have no dog in that hunt...I was just repeating something Tim Allen's wife said to him on Last Man Standing when he said "Ohio State"....It was funny and got the wished for eye roll....:)

    I wish I would have watched more of that show. Shame it was canceled.
     

    JettaKnight

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    Oct 13, 2010
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    I have no dog in that hunt...I was just repeating something Tim Allen's wife said to him on Last Man Standing when he said "Ohio State"....It was funny and got the wished for eye roll....:)

    My friends and I refer it as, "the THE Ohio State University of the State of Ohio"; or TTOSUOTSOO (phonetically, "Ta too soo OT soo").
     

    BugI02

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    Jul 4, 2013
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    Columbus, OH
    Superior erudition?


    It’s been in our actual name since 1878.
    According to our University Archives FAQ Page:
    The “The” was actually part of the state legislation when the university was renamed in 1878. The following excerpt is from the Board of Trustee minutes: “…the educational institution heretofore known as the ‘Ohio Agricultural and Mechanical College,’ shall be known and designated hereafter as ‘The Ohio State University.'” Those who wanted the name change thought the original name was too narrow in scope, and that it was inadequate for the institution that was the only beneficiary of the land grant act. President Edward Orton was insistent that a new name would separate the institution from other colleges in Ohio. Legend also has it that “The” was used to show the other colleges which institution was supposed to be the leader in the state – both in size and in financial support from the legislature.




    Hi jetta



     

    JettaKnight

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    Superior erudition?

    Not anymore - my FIL retired from the engineering dept.




    And while we're at it. That university in Oxford, OH is Miami Univeristy - the other one is Miami of Florida.

    Seriously - how did Miami, FL get it's name; the Miami indians were far, far away.


    EDIT: A derivation of Mayaimi.
     
    Last edited:

    BugI02

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    From: Why is there a Miami in Ohio?


    Miami (Ohio) was named after the Miami Tribe which inhabited Western Ohio.

    I love it when a Floridian asks because the school in Ohio came earlier. Much earlier. More than a century earlier! The University of Miami in Florida was founded in 1925. Miami University of Oxford, Ohio, was established in 1809.
    In fact, alumni of Miami (Ohio) like to poke a little fun and point out that their school was up and running as a university when what is now the state of Florida still belonged to Spain.

    Apparently there are several theories as to the name origin of Miami, Fla. One theory has the name of the original South Florida settlement coming from a railroad owned by Ohio investors, some of whom lived in the Miami River Valley.



    From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami_people


    Historic locations
    YearLocation
    1658Northeast of Lake Winnebago, WI (Fr)
    1667Mississippi Valley of Wisconsin
    1670Head of the Fox River, WI; Chicago village
    1673St. Joseph River Village, MI (River of the Miamis) (Fr),
    Kalamazoo River village, MI
    1703Detroit village, MI
    1720-63Miami River locations, OH;
    Scioto River village (nr Columbus), OH
    1764Wabash River villages
     
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