White privilege 101

[Kutnupe14]

Twang are you implying that Kut can't read? That looks like plain English to me (mostly English).

Maybe I can't because this is what you said...

College athletics is a hilarious example to bring up. How many supremely talented white athletes are given a back seat to the great black athlete? You don't see me crying about it. The most qualified applicants get in.
......
Everything is racist if you want it to be.

Care to give me a translation as to what the above means exactly? Because now, it seems as if you're back tracking, and trying to interject an academic component to my athletics question. So am I to believe that "supremely talented white athletes" who are given a backseat to "great black athletes," was a reference to academic success, and not on-field ability? You really gonna try and pan that off, as what you really meant??? Or are you flip-flopping between arguments to see which one you'd have the most success with. I believe, your words speak for themselves, and are plainly evident.

 

[Kutnupe14]

...and now, while configuring the Translator to run the other direction and accept inputs in INGOtarian, maybe I will save myself some work and simply ask: do you see any logical fallacies in that?

Perhaps, if one says that the athletes are all graded, equally, by their on-field ability. However, that would necessitate that different standards being applied to different groups of people.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Maybe I can't because this is what you said...



Care to give me a translation as to what the above means exactly? Because now, it seems as if you're back tracking, and trying to interject an academic component to my athletics question. So am I to believe that "supremely talented white athletes" who are given a backseat to "great black athletes," was a reference to academic success, and not on-field ability? You really gonna try and pan that off, as what you really meant??? Or are you flip-flopping between arguments to see which one you'd have the most success with. I believe, your words speak for themselves, and are plainly evident.

As are yours my friend.

You interjected athletics into the conversation, so don't pan that off on me, it's dishonest.

If you think that a black running back/shooting guard/whatever has never gotten the starting position over an equally talented white running back/shooting guard/whatever, then you are willingly sticking your head in the sand.

On the opposite side of that coin, if I think that a white student has never gotten accepted above an equally qualified black student, then I would be guilty of the same.

But I, sir, am aware that the possibility of both exists. I also understand that both are wrong. Your qualifications/merits/on-the-field performance should be the only thing that matters.

Your statement, which I've quoted several times and you still haven't defended, is that the diversity of students accepted should be relatively similar to the diversity of the student applicants. Acceptance, not based on your qualification, but based on meeting an ethnicity quota, is the definition of discrimination.

 

[Twangbanger]

Perhaps, if one says that the athletes are all graded, equally, by their on-field ability. However, that would necessitate that different standards being applied to different groups of people.

What's wrong with different standards? Some people major in physics...some people major in Underwater Truck Driving (shot out to you Navy ROTC guys!). If the college has programs for both on the same campus, that doesn't mean the admission requirements have to be the same for both.

Even within the category of athletics, though, I think most people would realize there is a difference between the girl lacrosse player who has a 4.0 in Engineering and that's what she wants to do in life...and the Cro-Magnon football player beating the shizz out of his girlfriend in his dorm room down the hall, and who is majoring in "Physical Education," dreaming of the Big Leagues, and has chosen of his own free will to have no back-up plan in life. What exactly is Phys. Ed? If you ask him, he'll say "it's Football." Even though many old-fashioned types don't like that admissions practice, the argument could very well be made (and has been) that he has no purpose on this Earth other than football, and everybody knows it and accepts it as such, and therefore, no compromise of academic ideals has been made. He exists on the same academic continuum which includes things like (in my experience at Purdue) Physics, Restaurant/Hotel mgmt./bar-tending, turfgrass management (ie, golf course management), interior decorating (a licensed profession - don't get the INGOtarians started), and maybe even actual Truck Driving, for all I know. As long as he's in accordance with the established admission requirements for his special corner of the world, nobody cares.

The examples may be imperfectly chosen, as when it comes to foreign students, most in my experience tended to be pretty sharp anyway in order to earn that opportunity (although, I am given to believe this has changed somewhat since I was in school, and now some colleges are giving spots to rich Chinese kids whose parents can simply afford to pay, and it's all about money and foreign-ness and academics has little to do with it).

But back to my question: I was getting at something different. How might the acceptance of the desire for a good college football team, not necessarily be in logical disagreement with the desire for, say, medical students to be of the highest caliber...and if that means an "all-white" statistical result within a particular admissions class, then so be it? How would your answer to that question possibly be informed differently, considering the fact that on INGO, you're dealing with a relatively small-government, freedom-of-association, life-doesn't-have-to-be-fair kind of group here?

**Hint: there actually are schools out there who don't care how good their basketball team is...uphold traditional classroom academic standards...and end up with a team full of smart-but-clumsy "white stiffs" who never win crap, as a result. And yet, the Obama Administration doesn't haul them into court for _that_ (even though, frankly speaking, such decisions are probably depriving some black athlete a chance at an "education.")

 

[Kutnupe14]

As are yours my friend.

You interjected athletics into the conversation, so don't pan that off on me, it's dishonest.

If you think that a black running back/shooting guard/whatever has never gotten the starting position over an equally talented white running back/shooting guard/whatever, then you are willingly sticking your head in the sand.

On the opposite side of that coin, if I think that a white student has never gotten accepted above an equally qualified black student, then I would be guilty of the same.

But I, sir, am aware that the possibility of both exists. I also understand that both are wrong. Your qualifications/merits/on-the-field performance should be the only thing that matters.

Your statement, which I've quoted several times and you still haven't defended, is that the diversity of students accepted should be relatively similar to the diversity of the student applicants. Acceptance, not based on your qualification, but based on meeting an ethnicity quota, is the definition of discrimination.

Despite, the moving of the goalposts... I rest my case. Since your have refused to provide any proof, I will just have to assume you're speaking about poor Al Bundy, who in the interest of affirmative action, while a supreme talent, was passed over for a college football scholarship, in favor of an inferior black athlete, relegating him to dreams of "what could've been," while he stacks away boxes of shoes.
And as far as equally qualified students being represented in proportion to applications, I have no qualms in saying I support the idea.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

And as far as equally qualified students being represented in proportion to applications, I have no qualms in saying I support the idea.

Then you are an unapologetic, discriminating, socialist.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Then you are an unapologetic, discriminating, socialist.

Lol, aren't we all

Kut (is completely unapologetic)

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Lol, aren't we all

Kut (is completely unapologetic)

Lord I hope not

 

[Kutnupe14]

Lord I hope not

Well, some do apologize.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Well, some do apologize.

Touche'

 

[jamil]

Then you are an unapologetic, discriminating, socialist.

This does not follow. My position is that ignoring race will produce the very result Kut wants. Kut's a bit more authoritarian about it. But stating that you want that isn't the problem. It's how you go about it that's the problem. He wants to pay attention to race to make sure chance doesn't accidentally mess up the numbers. But I think in reality, ignoring race wouldn't come to that anyway.

Each university has different departments. It's fair that they can decide what kind of university they are. Maybe they have a larger engineering school. Maybe they're primarily liberal arts focused. Maybe they have a large athletics program.

So it's fair that Universities would divvy up enrollment according to their focused areas of study. Maybe the medical school gets the most admissions. Engineering gets maybe fewer. Liberal arts even fewer. If they have a large athletics program, maybe so many scholarships in focused degree programs are corded off. Maybe they offer so many slots to foreign students.

All of that can and should be merit based and colorblind.

 

[indiucky]

Anybody else want to give it try telling CP what the significance of my bring up collegiate athletics is? ***sigh***

That some students have a "basketball jones" and teams that have players with a "basketball jones" tend to get more exposure which means more alumni putting money into the school?????

(I am dating myself with that obscure 70's pop culture reference...) Kut may be too young to get it...Maybe...

 

[jamil]

I grew up then. I have no idea what Basketball Jones is. I never understood it.

 

[indiucky]

I grew up then. I have no idea what Basketball Jones is. I never understood it.

A young person who loves basketball from cradle until death...It consumes them...Larry Byrd and Magic Johnson come to mind....It was a song on a Cheech and Chong album featuring George Harrison on guitar......


[video=youtube;YkT9wMUbKuE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkT9wMUbKuE[/video]

 

[jamil]

A young person who loves basketball from cradle until death...It consumes them...Larry Byrd and Magic Johnson come to mind....It was a song on a Cheech and Chong album featuring George Harrison on guitar......

I remember the song. I had that album. I just never understood it.

 

[JettaKnight]

And of course there is this famous pic of Gaston Glock and his new wife, along with Matthew Broderick and Sarah Jessica Parker...(Look how Sarah and Matt look at each other...Who says Hollywood marriages don't last?????)

You complete me.

Somehow I missed this text.

Brilliant stuff, Indiucky.

 

[JettaKnight]

Mmk.

2012:

Division I Football. African-American 51.6.%. White 43.3%

Division I Basketball. African-American 57.2%. White 29.4%

Pretty large disparity compared to the population. I'm sure it was all talent. I'm out.

I think Jimmy the Greek explained the disparity.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

. All of that can and should be merit based and colorblind.

Yep

 

[indiucky]

Somehow I missed this text.

Brilliant stuff, Indiucky.

It's obvious Matthew adores her....

 

[ATM]

ATM?

My privileges are legion.