Whites facing Genocide in South Africa

[TopDog]

History is written by those in power.

Pity as the powers that rule change, so does history. Its very difficult, but not impossible to know the truth. As an example to the British Washington was a terrorist, to the Americans he was patriot and hero.

 

[netsecurity]

History is written by those in power.

Pity as the powers that rule change, so does history. Its very difficult, but not impossible to know the truth. As an example to the British Washington was a terrorist, to the Americans he was patriot and hero.

Washington killed soldiers, he was a general. There is no comparison to killing innocent farmers. If the government is complicit, or instigating violence against innocents, it has lost all legitimacy. By all accounts, this appears to be the case in SA. There are a lot more problems besides slow police.

 

[88GT]

Where were they visiting when he sang that song? Was the complete report given in context of the visit? I see flags every day that whisper death to me, but I'm told it's only a celebration of culture. Couldn't that song be the same thing for those people? At least they can say they lived during the struggle which birthed the song.

Do I agree with the words of the song? No, but if everything else that takes place on that continent can be ignored, why is this such a great concern?

C'mon man, you're reaching.

Mandela was a leader and co-founder of the ANC militant wing (MK). Under his direct leadership and guidance, the MK carried out multiple attacks of sabotage, mostly via bombing campaigns. During the last years of his imprisonment, his MK organization expanded their efforts and the results led to civilian deaths. Upon his release in 1990 he refused to renounce their stepped up violence. And as you can see, in 1992 he is raising his fist in solidarity with murderers.

Is that not context enough?

 

[TopDog]

Washington killed soldiers, he was a general. There is no comparison to killing innocent farmers. If the government is complicit, or instigating violence against innocents, it has lost all legitimacy. By all accounts, this appears to be the case in SA. There are a lot more problems besides slow police.

The purpose of the example was not to draw a direct correlation. But that one can be called a terrorist or hero depending on the perspective of those in power writing the history.

If the Axis powers had won WWII how do you think the history books would portray the Nazis?

 

[Que]

C'mon man, you're reaching.

Mandela was a leader and co-founder of the ANC militant wing (MK). Under his direct leadership and guidance, the MK carried out multiple attacks of sabotage, mostly via bombing campaigns. During the last years of his imprisonment, his MK organization expanded their efforts and the results led to civilian deaths. Upon his release in 1990 he refused to renounce their stepped up violence. And as you can see, in 1992 he is raising his fist in solidarity with murderers.

Is that not context enough?

Wow . . . You win.

 

[88GT]

Wow . . . You win.

Hey, don't get upset with me when you question a statement and I back it up. I'm sorry if you don't like facts. Don't blame me. I didn't make 'em up.

 

[hacksawfg]

Moderator question -

Why is this in Break Room instead of General Political Discussion?

Personal question -

Understanding that there is deep-seated racial tension just based on the title of the thread, am I the only one here that sees this as more of a "Why it's important to have the tools and training necessary to protect yourself because the government can't or won't," thread than a "Look at this, black people are evil thread"?

That being said, I told my wife I'd be upstairs two hours ago. I'm going to go find some pictures of hot chicks eating bacon to clear my mind and then go sleep on the couch. Do have they a version of methadone for INGO addiction?

FOLLOWUP: There is a disturbing lack of pictures of hot chicks eating bacon on the internet (yes, safe search is off). However, there is a facebook page.

 

[danielocean03]

Thread moved to more appropriate subforum.

 

[CarmelHP]

Early phases of genocide?

What time did they get up in the morning? Black on white violence has been the order of the day since apartheid ended and Mandela won the election.

Yes, decades. Any white farmers still in South Africa are fools.

 

[Que]

Hey, don't get upset with me when you question a statement and I back it up. I'm sorry if you don't like facts. Don't blame me. I didn't make 'em up.

Oh, I'm certainly not upset. I'm used to people who choose which facts they present to support their case, but if one were to look at the entire history, would you still hold the same opinion? Go back to 1652 and then examine the crimes committed from that time until 1994 and then tell me what you think. Who was committing crimes against whom? Does that matter or is that too far back in time and should be forgotten?

I understand that history is viewed from one's life experiences, culture, and background, but that's no excuse to ignore other facts presented. Just do some research on colonization, politics, and the laws of that country and then tell me what you think.

 

[Expat]

Yes, decades. Any white farmers still in South Africa are fools.

Where do you go if your family has lived on the same piece of land for centuries? It would be hard to suddenly leave the country that you consider yours.

 

[IndyDave1776]

It's Africa, and I should care why? Whe have our own issues. They built their own house, they can tend it too.

This is absolutely false!

This problem would not exist had we not directly contributed to creating it. I cannot say that I agree with the previous regime, but it was certainly a hell of a lot safer to be black in the old South Africa than to be anything but black in South Africa today. There is a huge chasm between discrimination (admittedly not acceptable) and the genocide that has been ramping up for over a decade.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

The purpose of the example was not to draw a direct correlation. But that one can be called a terrorist or hero depending on the perspective of those in power writing the history.

If the Axis powers had won WWII how do you think the history books would portray the Nazis?

Strictly speaking, there was no such thing as a "terrorist" during our Revolutionary War period. Had we lost our bid for freedom from England, Washington and the rest would have been hung as traitors and criminals, not as "terrorists" (and, indeed, they committed no acts of terrorism).

 

[CarmelHP]

This is absolutely false!

This problem would not exist had we not directly contributed to creating it. I cannot say that I agree with the previous regime, but it was certainly a hell of a lot safer to be black in the old South Africa than to be anything but black in South Africa today. There is a huge chasm between discrimination (admittedly not acceptable) and the genocide that has been ramping up for over a decade.

It was also safer to be black then than it is now.

 

[CarmelHP]

Where do you go if your family has lived on the same piece of land for centuries? It would be hard to suddenly leave the country that you consider yours.

Maybe, except it is foolish. Anyone who saw what happened in the old Rhodesia knew what was coming.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I would also point out that the old South Africa had a prosperous self-sustaining economy as opposed to the panhandling for foreign aid that has been the case since, as buried deep and given only brief mention in the 'respectable' newspapers.

 

[CarmelHP]

Oh, I'm certainly not upset. I'm used to people who choose which facts they present to support their case, but if one were to look at the entire history, would you still hold the same opinion? Go back to 1652 and then examine the crimes committed from that time until 1994 and then tell me what you think. Who was committing crimes against whom? Does that matter or is that too far back in time and should be forgotten?

I understand that history is viewed from one's life experiences, culture, and background, but that's no excuse to ignore other facts presented. Just do some research on colonization, politics, and the laws of that country and then tell me what you think.

I think that old crimes don't justify new ones. Race based "shoe on the other foot" justifications like what you seem to be offering are racist.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Oh, I'm certainly not upset. I'm used to people who choose which facts they present to support their case, but if one were to look at the entire history, would you still hold the same opinion? Go back to 1652 and then examine the crimes committed from that time until 1994 and then tell me what you think. Who was committing crimes against whom? Does that matter or is that too far back in time and should be forgotten?

I understand that history is viewed from one's life experiences, culture, and background, but that's no excuse to ignore other facts presented. Just do some research on colonization, politics, and the laws of that country and then tell me what you think.

Yep, this is one of our earliest examples of what happens when we pressure a national government not our own to be "changed" because they are "inhumane" (and the Apartheid government WAS inhumane, in some respects). So we directly contributed to that governmental "change" to give the majority "hope" and they did with it just about what every other nation we've pressured for "change". The majority took over and established a worse regime than the one we helped cause to be replaced. The jury is still out on Iraq, but everywhere else I can think of offhand (Egypt, Libya, Syria, just about any former colonial country in Africa) the situation has gone from bad for the majority, to terrible for the majority and genocidal for the new minorities.

 

[dhnorris]

there is a family we know from SA and they loved it there until it became too dangerous. Walls , dogs, guns armored cars guards because without these things his children would have been killed, wife raped and dead and him as well. He got out and is alive.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

This is absolutely false!

This problem would not exist had we not directly contributed to creating it. I cannot say that I agree with the previous regime, but it was certainly a hell of a lot safer to be black in the old South Africa than to be anything but black in South Africa today. There is a huge chasm between discrimination (admittedly not acceptable) and the genocide that has been ramping up for over a decade.

It's not even safe to be a black in SA if you're not a member of the ruling tribe.