Whites facing Genocide in South Africa

[TopDog]

Atrocities are the mainstay of South Africa's history. Atrocities committed by both sides.

So I guess the question is, does the brutality suffered by the people of South Africa under the rule of the white government justify the brutality of the ANC? Apparently so, the ANC gulags that mutilated and tortured those that wouldn't join the terrorist campaign, now only footnotes hardly mentioned in South Africa's recent history. The ANC technique of “necklacing”, placing a gasoline filled tire around the neck of a victim and set afire, totally justified? The list of ANC atrocities go on and on. Research Truth Commission Hearing for a glimpse of the bloody terrorist activities of the ANC.

None of the torture, mutilations, killing of civilians, women and children by either side is justified. Yet to the victors go the spoils. Mandela amassed more than 250 awards, including the 1993 Nobel Peace Prize. Always presented as a hero that brought a democratic government to South Africa. Yet South Africa now is the rape capital of the world. A rape every 26 seconds. Its estimated that adult males under the age of 30 have as high as a 40 percent HIV infection rate. Many of the rapists believe that if they commit rape of a virgin, this act will cure them of AIDS.

Yes history is written by those in power. Although it is good that South Africa has thrown off the shackles of apartheid but at what cost? Does the end justify the means. Apparently history is being written right now to say yes, it does.

And how will the current "White Genocide" be treated by history?

 

[Expat]

So I assume everyone is good with the American Indians to begin killing you Europeans.

 

[netsecurity]

It's not even safe to be a black in Africa if you're not a member of the ruling tribe.

FIFY

I wouldn't call it racism, I would call it massive intolerance of different cultures, regardless of skin color.

I'm so sick of the word racism. Discrimination occurs in many, many forms, and racism is only a subform.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

So I assume everyone is good with the American Indians to begin killing you Europeans.

That's a war that was thoroughly lost a long time ago. If they want to try, though, they're welcome to get it on. They should probably start with California, Oregon, and Washington State, though; they would probably be easier pickings than Arizona, New Mexico, Montana, Utah, or points Eastward. They might have fairly good luck if they start in Massachusetts and work their way down through NY City and into New Jersey and Maryland. If they get that far, they ought to call it quits and sue for Peace with the White Man.

 

[Que]

I think that old crimes don't justify new ones. Race based "shoe on the other foot" justifications like what you seem to be offering are racist.

You are totally off base and I don't accept the INGO definition of "racist." My original response was concerning Mandella singing a song and the reason for that song. I was nut justifying any form of violence inflicted upon anyone.

Yep, this is one of our earliest examples of what happens when we pressure a national government not our own to be "changed" because they are "inhumane" (and the Apartheid government WAS inhumane, in some respects). So we directly contributed to that governmental "change" to give the majority "hope" and they did with it just about what every other nation we've pressured for "change". The majority took over and established a worse regime than the one we helped cause to be replaced. The jury is still out on Iraq, but everywhere else I can think of offhand (Egypt, Libya, Syria, just about any former colonial country in Africa) the situation has gone from bad for the majority, to terrible for the majority and genocidal for the new minorities.

This is very true.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

You are totally off base and I don't accept the INGO definition of "racist." My original response was concerning Mandella singing a song and the reason for that song. I was nut justifying any form of violence inflicted upon anyone.



This is very true.

And yet, the African National Congress was a terror organization from early on; got a lot of their aid from the Communists, and engaged heavily in communist apologetics to justify their cause. Mandela was a long-time associate of the ANC; it didn't turn communist after his imprisonment. No, Mandella simply singing a song doesn't condemn him, but his former association does condemn him.

 

[Que]

And yet, the African National Congress was a terror organization from early on; got a lot of their aid from the Communists, and engaged heavily in communist apologetics to justify their cause. Mandela was a long-time associate of the ANC; it didn't turn communist after his imprisonment. No, Mandella simply singing a song doesn't condemn him, but his former association does condemn him.

Okay, condemn him for what?

 

[CarmelHP]

You are totally off base and I don't accept the INGO definition of "racist." My original response was concerning Mandella singing a song and the reason for that song. I was nut justifying any form of violence inflicted upon anyone.

What exactly is the "INGO definition of racist" in your mind? I'd like to hear it. If you're saying that the killing of whites today is justified by the past, which is sure what it sounded like, then that is racist. There is no race guilt passed down. Guilt is borne by the perpetrators alone.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Considering Apartheid ended in what the 1990s, I'm still sure the are plenty of perpetrators floating around. And IMO, if you were complicit with the system, that person is also a perp.

But then again, it's Africa, why do we care? I'm sure just as many blacks were killed during that span than whites. Is there some sort of hierarchy for murder? Is murder more note worthy if it's whites being killed rather than people in general?

South Africa made its bed with its intolerance, now they can sleep in it. I could care less unless they bring their nonsense to our shores.

 

[Que]

What exactly is the "INGO definition of racist" in your mind? I'd like to hear it. If you're saying that the killing of whites today is justified by the past, which is sure what it sounded like, then that is racist. There is no race guilt passed down. Guilt is borne by the perpetrators alone.

It appears that anything done that is not approved, is racist. I don't agree with that. I would never suggest such as thing as you infer from my posts. I don't agree with unjustified killings of any kind. I am not in the position to justify anything and can care less where guilt plays in this discussion. I'm simply trying to figure out why these issues of black and white seem to always come up on INGO only for someone to start throwing around "racist?" What is supposed to be accomplished?

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Considering Apartheid ended in what the 1990s, I'm still sure the are plenty of perpetrators floating around. And IMO, if you were complicit with the system, that person is also a perp.

But then again, it's Africa, why do we care? I'm sure just as many blacks were killed during that span than whites. Is there some sort of hierarchy for murder? Is murder more note worthy if it's whites being killed rather than people in general?

South Africa made its bed with its intolerance, now they can sleep in it. I could care less unless they bring their nonsense to our shores.

You and Que both seem to be ignoring the horrendous history of atrocities among the various tribal groups in all of Africa. Terrorism and murder isn't unique to whites in South Africa or the former Rhodesia. It is interesting to note that just about everywhere the colonialists left or lost power, the native governments instituted just as much oppression against minority tribes as when colonial powers were in charge, but the conditions extant in these "new" nations are almost uniformly nearly disastrous. Apartheid was wrong - I say that again - but the new hopes of self-determination for the tribes of Africa have drowned in old rivalries and mismanagement.

 

[CarmelHP]

Considering Apartheid ended in what the 1990s, I'm still sure the are plenty of perpetrators floating around. And IMO, if you were complicit with the system, that person is also a perp.

But then again, it's Africa, why do we care? I'm sure just as many blacks were killed during that span than whites. Is there some sort of hierarchy for murder? Is murder more note worthy if it's whites being killed rather than people in general?

South Africa made its bed with its intolerance, now they can sleep in it. I could care less unless they bring their nonsense to our shores.

There you go again. No trial needed or guilt established. At least you're consistent with the outrageous statements.

 

[Que]

You and Que both seem to be ignoring the horrendous history of atrocities among the various tribal groups in all of Africa. Terrorism and murder isn't unique to whites in South Africa or the former Rhodesia. It is interesting to note that just about everywhere the colonialists left or lost power, the native governments instituted just as much oppression against minority tribes as when colonial powers were in charge, but the conditions extant in these "new" nations are almost uniformly nearly disastrous. Apartheid was wrong - I say that again - but the new hopes of self-determination for the tribes of Africa have drowned in old rivalries and mismanagement.

No, I have not, but to which atrocities are you reffering and who were the victims?

 

[HeadlessRoland]

Yes, decades. Any white farmers still in South Africa are fools.

Does the right of adverse possession no longer apply?
Yes, they may be 'settlers' but most have also been there for generations.

I like to remind people who think they have a handle on ethnicity and race that Dave Matthews is, both technically and strictly speaking, an African-American.

Also, apologies to mods, didn't know where to put this, so I chose breakroom.
Thanks to D.O.3 for the appropriate move.

 

[Que]

Does the right of adverse possession no longer apply?
Yes, they may be 'settlers' but most have also been there for generations.

I like to remind people who think they have a handle on ethnicity and race that Dave Matthews is, both technically and strictly speaking, an African-American.

Also, apologies to mods, didn't know where to put this, so I chose breakroom.
Thanks to D.O.3 for the appropriate move.

Yeah, and I've still not been able to get a ticket to one of his concerts! I even offered a Glock 22 with six magazines for four tickets and was turned down.

 

[CarmelHP]

Does the right of adverse possession no longer apply?
Yes, they may be 'settlers' but most have also been there for generations.

.

What does that have to do with the wisdom of stayin? It's like a Jew wanting to keep their property in Nazi Germany, understandable, rightful,but ultimately foolish.

 

[IndyDave1776]

What does that have to do with the wisdom of stayin? It's like a Jew wanting to keep their property in Nazi Germany, understandable, rightful,but ultimately foolish.

The problem, eerily similar with that of the Jew in Nazi Germany, is that even if they want to leave, where are they going to go. Legal immigration into the United States and most other western 'civilized' nations is a SOB if you aren't part of a favored group, which these people aren't. If they were to immigrate illegally, they would get punted back to SA faster than a .22-250.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

No, I have not, but to which atrocities are you reffering and who were the victims?

You've asserted that others need to "read history" and learn the facts. Try researching inter-tribal warfare in Africa; you could check out the Darfur situation; the Ugandan history; the Congo; what's happened to various tribal groups in the former Rhodesia. It is no different than the internecine low level conflicts among tribes in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and elsewhere and it goes back hundreds, if not thousands of years. I can't recall the particulars, but I do remember reading about the internal conflicts - especially the "necklacing" when the ANC took control of the country; that was all tribal-related. While it was the Arabs who sold slaves to the Europeans, it was the various African tribal groups who took slaves from other tribes and sold them to the Arabs. And there still exists slavery today.

 

[Kutnupe14]

You and Que both seem to be ignoring the horrendous history of atrocities among the various tribal groups in all of Africa. Terrorism and murder isn't unique to whites in South Africa or the former Rhodesia. It is interesting to note that just about everywhere the colonialists left or lost power, the native governments instituted just as much oppression against minority tribes as when colonial powers were in charge, but the conditions extant in these "new" nations are almost uniformly nearly disastrous. Apartheid was wrong - I say that again - but the new hopes of self-determination for the tribes of Africa have drowned in old rivalries and mismanagement.

Sorry, I wasn't clear in my previous point, but this is exactly what I was getting at. Blacks Africans have no issue with killing each other, so for to be killing white people doesn't exactly have me scratching my head as to "why."

And you point out something that I find indeed interesting, though I wonder if you realize it. It's the arrogance of the western world's view of democracy as being the best system of govt. Democracy IS a great system.... but only for populations that understand it, and that are ready to apply it. Look at it this way:

Let's say that I drive you to 20 miles to work in a car everyday. You see how I operate the car, and think you have grasp of how to operate a motor vehicle, The one day, I suddenenly tell you I'm moving, hand you the keys, and tell you to drive yourself to work from now on. What are the odds that you'll make it to work, safely? I'm betting zero to none.

This is exactly what happened in S. Africa, and Africa in general. Western colonial powers set up governments mirroring that of their own own nations. They ran those governments for decades with little or no participation allowed by the native populations. And then one day, when they decided they could afford the administer the nations anymore, they hand the keys to a few people, and said "the cars' yours son, don't crash it." But the problem is that they never adequately trained the new owner on how to operate the machine. Failure was a certainty. The colonial govts didn't "lose" power, they simply gave it up.

It's for this reason that democracy isn't always the best option. Sometimes a population just isn't ready for it.

 

[Kutnupe14]

There you go again. No trial needed or guilt established. At least you're consistent with the outrageous statements.

Thank you for being concerned...