Who needs border security, its just migratory workers, right?

[Kirk Freeman]

Like the OP pointed out, it's really about national border security.

Oh, I agree, even if "national security" is just an excuse for the border states to suck off the federal teet in most cases.

The US-Mexico border has always been dangerous. Everyone in the gun culture knows this. Heck, this is where Bill Jordan and Harlon Carter were.

The problem is that even if an Administration that put America first was in power, it would be facing a hostile Congress who needs the illegals for muscle and votes.

 

[sharkey]

I saw that story at lunch time. Assuming it's actually cartel sewerage making its way north, I don't see how this ends well.

Define "ends well." They get to use their Obamaguns, right? The end justifies the means.






Right?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Who will do the work if the USA does not import illegals? They are tied into the economy not to be needed--restaurants, construction, inter alia. Republicans protect them because of the Chamber of Commerce; Democrats protect illegals because of the votes.

Import legals. That's simple enough. We do it with skilled workers when a business can show they can't hire a native that's qualified.

Plus, you know, that whole "free market" thing that INGO keeps shouting about. Americans *will* do dangerous and difficult jobs if the pay is commiserate with that work. Construction work is difficult and dangerous, yet it gets done and the wages are good when you aren't competing against illegals. Oil field work is dangerous and difficult, yet it gets done and the wages are good. Mining is dangerous and difficult, yet it gets done and the wages are good. Agricultural work is no different.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Americans won't do the work. The South Eastern states have proved that with their need for agricultural workers. They upped pay and still couldn't get people to come out to the fields and work. The fact of the matter is that there are jobs that many, if not most, Americans just see themselves as too good to do. Someone needs to do it.

If true, that means they didn't up the pay enough.

 

[HeadlessRoland]

If in fact it's cartel-directed (which I don't believe mostly because all the cartels are notorious for signing their own messages), then we're in for some interesting times, because the cartels are already here. They have kept the wanton violence to an absolute minimum here, but they have no qualms about using violence, no moral code, and these guys are well-versed in using machetes to hack off heads and limbs. I've seen cartel videos that would chill the blood of even the hardest operator. Ruthlessness doesn't even begin to cover it. So, we can either except grisly, garish violence as routine here - as they do in México, or we can fight back and start by reducing their profit margins.

 

[richardraw316]

I was one of those people on unemployment. 1300 is the number give or take. 1300 applications filled out while I was on unemployment. I would have taken any job offered and begged for a few that weren't. I have seen companies run with 80% illegal employees. I have watched five illegals get deported from Indiana back to Mexico and miss only a week of work. Our unemployment in this country is high and the population of illegal immigrants is high. This is not a coincidence. I have no problem with immigrants. Legal ones. This country is founded by people who wanted to become American. It's a beautiful thing. They learn about our country. They learn our language. They learn and accept what it means to be an American. They eventually pay taxes. Illegals don't.
As for the cartels. Deal with them like they deserve. See one shoot one. Repeat until the problem is solved.

 

[Bowman78]

Why are the cartels pushing north?? Drug trade correct??? What is their major cash crop??? First step in my opinion is legalize pot.. I'm not a 4/20r either..

 

[mrjarrell]

Lets stop propping up the labor market with government subsidies and give it a try.

(Btw, let's stop propping up the farmers too)

Thought you would be a free market kind of guy

I am a free market kinda person. I believe people should be able to work where they please without barriers to it. I'd like to see the welfare state go away, but building fences on the border is not how you go about it. Free exchange of labour is a necessity.

 

[mrjarrell]

If true, that means they didn't up the pay enough.

The American people are not willing to pay $12/lb for onions and tomatoes. The "illegals" have always been willing to work for what the market paid and give a fair days work in exchange for it. Lazy assed Americans think they should get $20/hr for picking tomatoes and onions (and even when the pay was upped they wouldn't show up). Immigrant labour is necessary. If the US would set up a decent and fair system so they could easily get here legally they would. But there is no interest in that as long as the "They took our jobs" crowd is crowing, (and not working in the fields).

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Why are the cartels pushing north?? Drug trade correct??? What is their major cash crop??? First step in my opinion is legalize pot.. I'm not a 4/20r either..

Weed isn't the major cash crop any longer, the cartels have been "diversified" for decades, and weed is getting a smaller and smaller cut of the pie. While I don't disagree with legalizing pot, understand that the impact on the cartels would be minimal. They make *billiions* of dollars, and a lot of it is from cocaine and heroin. I don't know much about the heroin trade, although I probably should since its making a come back around here and we have the overdoses to prove it. Cocaine, though, is hugely profitable. The Mexican cartels purchase it in places like Peru, then transports it to the US where it sells for about 20X more wholesale, 60X more retail.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

The American people are not willing to pay $12/lb for onions and tomatoes.

Show me how onions and tomatoes would get to $12/lb if farm workers were paid your theoretical $20 an hour.

Do you know what percentage of the cost of your food goes to labor? To the farmer? Or are you just pulling numbers out of your butt and going with the traditional scare tactics Republicans and apologists use to argue that we "need" illegals or our grocery bills will sky rocket?

 

[Benny]

Can someone logically explain to me what makes a person born in Mexico "illegal" when they cross an arbitrary line to work for what non skilled Americans refuse to work for?

How did all of us get here? Oh yeah, we stole the land from native Americans, then wrote up a document saying anyone else that wants to live here has to go through a bunch of BS that are ancestors didn't have to deal with.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Can someone logically explain to me what makes a person born in Mexico "illegal" when they cross an arbitrary line to work for what non skilled Americans refuse to work for?

You want national sovereignty explained to you? Way beyond the scope of this thread.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Can someone logically explain to me what makes a person born in Mexico "illegal" when they cross an arbitrary line to work for what non skilled Americans refuse to work for?

How did all of us get here? Oh yeah, we stole the land from native Americans, then wrote up a document saying anyone else that wants to live here has to go through a bunch of BS that are ancestors didn't have to deal with.

By that logic, I have just as much right to live in your house as you do. After all, its on stolen land and your property lines are arbitrary.

 

[poptab]

You want national sovereignty explained to you? Way beyond the scope of this thread.

Ha yea because it's beyond the scope of explanation period.
It's backwards, illogical and a great source of human misery.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Wow, communism creeping into INGO. This land is my land, this land is your land.

 

[KLB]

Can someone logically explain to me what makes a person born in Mexico "illegal" when they cross an arbitrary line to work for what non skilled Americans refuse to work for?

How did all of us get here? Oh yeah, we stole the land from native Americans, then wrote up a document saying anyone else that wants to live here has to go through a bunch of BS that are ancestors didn't have to deal with.

Here is a nice little history lesson about migrant farm labor.
National Center for Farmworker Health: About America's Farmworkers

 

[Henry]

Can someone logically explain to me what makes a person born in Mexico "illegal" when they cross an arbitrary line to work for what non skilled Americans refuse to work for?

How did all of us get here? Oh yeah, we stole the land from native Americans, then wrote up a document saying anyone else that wants to live here has to go through a bunch of BS that are ancestors didn't have to deal with.

Why aren't you giving your land and property back?

 

[GIJEW]

I was one of those people on unemployment. 1300 is the number give or take. 1300 applications filled out while I was on unemployment. I would have taken any job offered and begged for a few that weren't. I have seen companies run with 80% illegal employees. I have watched five illegals get deported from Indiana back to Mexico and miss only a week of work. Our unemployment in this country is high and the population of illegal immigrants is high. This is not a coincidence. I have no problem with immigrants. Legal ones. This country is founded by people who wanted to become American. It's a beautiful thing. They learn about our country. They learn our language. They learn and accept what it means to be an American. They eventually pay taxes. Illegals don't.
As for the cartels. Deal with them like they deserve. See one shoot one. Repeat until the problem is solved.

^^^
Exactly! To those who complain about unending unemployment "benefits", we had to pay up front for, I (who haven't had steady work in 5 years) don't even mess with it anymore. $300/week--before taxes--won't get you anywhere except evicted and deeper in debt! The principle of "supply &demand" has been pulled out from under the feet of blue-collar America. The "ruling class" and their cronies on wall st. have sold our sovereignty for votes and higher stock returns.

As for the cartels, we CAN secure the border if we want to. I don't think thats living off the fed.gov's tit, that's using the armed forces--we already pay for--for national defense! Soldiers and pilots will stay sharper supplementing training/manuvers with some(more) actual operational experience--relatively close to home at that. The expense of staking out a triple row of concertina wire would be the largest cost, and with dead narco-gangsters hanging on it, it would be an effective deterent.

 

[richardraw316]

^^^
Exactly! To those who complain about unending unemployment "benefits", we had to pay up front for, I (who haven't had steady work in 5 years) don't even mess with it anymore. $300/week--before taxes--won't get you anywhere except evicted and deeper in debt! The principle of "supply &demand" has been pulled out from under the feet of blue-collar America. The "ruling class" and their cronies on wall st. have sold our sovereignty for votes and higher stock returns.

As for the cartels, we CAN secure the border if we want to. I don't think thats living off the fed.gov's tit, that's using the armed forces--we already pay for--for national defense! Soldiers and pilots will stay sharper supplementing training/manuvers with some(more) actual operational experience--relatively close to home at that. The expense of staking out a triple row of concertina wire would be the largest cost, and with dead narco-gangsters hanging on it, it would be an effective deterent.

I have always liked the idea of hiring retireing and returning soldiers to guard the borders. Heck I know a 65 year old Vietnam vet who will drop what he is doing right now to live in Texas and watch a section of the border. All he needs is a m14 plenty of ammo and a butt load of mre's. O and jerky lots of jerky.