Why all the hate on .40

[BigMoose]

It's just flooded. Nothing more than that.

The market has to be flooded for a REASON.

The reason? 40S&W is being abandoned enmasse.

 

[KJQ6945]

I probably fall in the .40 hater camp. I just never saw the use or a need for it.

When I went on the police department, we carried S&W model 66’s in .357 magnum. 6 in the gun, and two speed loaders.

I carried a Glock 17 as a backup, that had as many rounds in the gun as I carried total for the magnum.

The big issue for me was accuracy. I very rarely shot a perfect 300 with the magnum. With the 17, a perfect score was easy.

When the department switched to Glock 22’s, I got rid of my Glock 17. Too similar and I didn’t want any confusion in the dark. Keep It Simple Stupid.

With the .40, I was back to shooting 297-299 on the PPC course.

I left the department years ago, and I don’t leave the house without my Glock 22. The only difference is mine now shoots 9mm. Accuracy matters more than bullet weight, at least in my opinion.

 

[VERT]

It's just flooded. Nothing more than that.

Correct. Way too many .40 S&W pistols out there for the cartridge to die anytime soon. New guns are still being built and used ones are real bargains. All it takes is an another 10 round magazine limit and watch full size .40s become all of the rage. Maybe? There were a couple of things that figured into the adoption of .40 in the early 90s that isn’t there today.

Keep in mind that 10mm was all but dead 10 years ago and now it has become trendy again. Before that it was the birth, death, resurgence and now death of the .41 magnum. The interest in .40 caliber pistols comes and goes it seems.

 

[VERT]

Small change of topic. Reloading:

Does anyone have a good .40 S&W minor load? Cheap Glock trade ins would be a good cheap platform to set up for banging steel or punching holes.

 

[CombatShooter]

Correct. Way too many .40 S&W pistols out there for the cartridge to die anytime soon. New guns are still being built and used ones are real bargains. All it takes is an another 10 round magazine limit and watch full size .40s become all of the rage. Maybe? There were a couple of things that figured into the adoption of .40 in the early 90s that isn’t there today.

Keep in mind that 10mm was all but dead 10 years ago and now it has become trendy again. Before that it was the birth, death, resurgence and now death of the .41 magnum. The interest in .40 caliber pistols comes and goes it seems.

100% ....................... I have no plans to get rid of any .40 pistols , At least we still have the freedom of choice

 

[88E30M50]

The market has to be flooded for a REASON.

The reason? 40S&W is being abandoned enmasse.

View attachment 328745

The reason is that departments are moving to a more budget friendly caliber that meets the 'good enough ' test. The civilian use of .40 has never been overly strong. So, the flood of trade-ins has tanked the market.

It's still a great caliber, and use in the civilian world hasn't decreased. If anything, it's gained just a bit due to the deals available.

 

[mcapo]

.....now death of the .41 magnum.....

Where are all the SW 57's being sold off cheap?

 

[ECS686]

I got to see a good example of what the OP was posting about today. USCCA posted this picture on FB. OMG, the 9mil people had an absolute conniption. just showing a 40 in a picture is apparently unthinkable.

View attachment 328702

People lose their minds on some silly things. A few lost their crap over a pic of an old school leather revolver holster on Primary Secondary FB page (I went back and didn’t see it so they must have moved it)

All because of an exposed trigger guard. While yes exposed trigger guards are bad with Glocks etc in a revolver with a 12 pound trigger and leather around the cylnder it isn’t going to cause Glock leg unless you mean it to cause Glock leg.

 

[VERT]

Where are all the SW 57's being sold off cheap?

Ironically the first handgun I ever owned was a model 57. It hung in a shoulder holster off the post on my bed during college and graduate school. Ended up trading it to a S&W collector for a Model 41 target gun for bullseye league

 

[mcapo]

Ironically the first handgun I ever owned was a model 57. It hung in a shoulder holster off the post on my bed during college and graduate school. Ended up trading it to a S&W collector for a Model 41 target gun for bullseye league

Probably a solid deal at the time and still today!

 

[DadSmith]

Definitely appreciate your thoughts! It’s something I’ve been curious about, ever since picking up a few boxes of the speedy 10mms.

I’m sure there wouldn’t be a very large data set for high velocity pistol rounds, since they’re fairly boutique as compared to rifle rounds or more commonly used (and slower) pistol rounds. In any case, thanks for sharing your experience.

I seen a report from Boston it had two reports of 10mm use. They used the 135gr most likely underwood at around 1400fps is what the article said.
Both people were killed with one shot from that ammunition IIRC. I posted the article in a 10mm thread. As BBI has stated in the past two is not much of a sample, but it does look promising.
I have a feeling the person or persons using the 10mm had excellent shot placement, and a high velocity, rapid expanding, deep penetrating bullet did the rest.

 

[Lucar186]

So i just got a police surplus glock 22, gun has minimal holster wear and looks unfired for like $260, but everyone seems to hate .40 with a passion, but why?

I understand there's more recoil and it can be if it's happy, and in compact and subcompact guns it sucks to shoot, but it doesn't seem that bad in service pistols.

The ammo isn't incredibly expensive and available. It's easy enough to shoot in a a full size gun. It seems to perform better then 9mm with barrier penetration and even cheap .40 JHPs perform as well as if not better then 9mm. Even the flat nose .40 FMJ is not a horrible defensive round(over penetration aside6
).

I get people who call it .40 Short and Weak and want to carry full house 10mm and it's good for hunting. but looking at most ammunition, testing, full power 10 mm either over expands or over penetrates with most modern defensive ammunition.

And the well regarded defensive/duty JHP loadings in 10mm are running more or less at hot .40 S&W velocities.

I understand why people don't like it for concealed carry, but why all the hate?

If ai had to use it as a cop gun, or in a home defense pistol it seems like it is a good middle of the round round for that purpose

I have shot a g23 in 40 and a S&W m60 in 357mag. There’s 2 ounces difference between those guns. The g23 was miserable to shoot. The m60 was a joy with full house magnums. I can’t explain why that is exactly since 357mag is more powerful. I’ll be ditching the 40 but it’ll handle whatever you need it to.

 

[Lucar186]

In fairness, I don't think everyone thinks about GAP at all.

View attachment 326724
Why does everyone think the GAP is gone? I carry this 38.
I have a G37 as well and about 3,000 rounds that I snagged at about .27 a round.

What is GAP anyway?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

What is GAP anyway?

Glock's failed vanity cartridge. .40S&W is Smith & Wesson. .357 Sig is Sig Sauer. .45 GAP is Glock Auto Pistol

 

[indiucky]

Glock's failed vanity cartridge .45 GAP is Glock Auto Pistol

 

[88E30M50]

I have shot a g23 in 40 and a S&W m60 in 357mag. There’s 2 ounces difference between those guns. The g23 was miserable to shoot. The m60 was a joy with full house magnums. I can’t explain why that is exactly since 357mag is more powerful. I’ll be ditching the 40 but it’ll handle whatever you need it to.

Everyone has different tastes in guns. I've had a number of G23s and have found them quite nice to shoot. G27s as well. The only time I've found the G23 to feel like it has a lot of recoil is if I shoot it after I shoot a bunch of 9mm. Then, I can feel the difference in recoil. If I shoot the .40 first, it feels fine. For a long while, I was convinced that the G23 was the perfect carry gun. I now know that it's the P229 in .357 Sig that holds that title.

 

[Lucar186]

Everyone has different tastes in guns. I've had a number of G23s and have found them quite nice to shoot. G27s as well. The only time I've found the G23 to feel like it has a lot of recoil is if I shoot it after I shoot a bunch of 9mm. Then, I can feel the difference in recoil. If I shoot the .40 first, it feels fine. For a long while, I was convinced that the G23 was the perfect carry gun. I now know that it's the P229 in .357 Sig that holds that title.

I’ve wanted to try 357 Sig for a while but as far as I’m aware all the manufacturers have dropped it with the exception of Glock

 

[Firehawk]

Everyone has different tastes in guns. I've had a number of G23s and have found them quite nice to shoot. G27s as well. The only time I've found the G23 to feel like it has a lot of recoil is if I shoot it after I shoot a bunch of 9mm. Then, I can feel the difference in recoil. If I shoot the .40 first, it feels fine. For a long while, I was convinced that the G23 was the perfect carry gun. I now know that it's the P229 in .357 Sig that holds that title.

When I first got into shooting in my early 20’s a good buddy of mine had a G23. Neither of us thought the recoil was bad. But we both started out shooting 1911s and we didn’t have anything 9mm at that time. No long after that he got a Walther P99 in .40 S&W. That one was hard to shoot. It didn’t have enough grip texture and I’d have to reset my grip after every shot. I see that as more of a fault of the gun than the cartridge though.

 

[chadm]

So i just got a police surplus glock 22, gun has minimal holster wear and looks unfired for like $260, but everyone seems to hate .40 with a passion, but why?

I understand there's more recoil and it can be if it's happy, and in compact and subcompact guns it sucks to shoot, but it doesn't seem that bad in service pistols.

The ammo isn't incredibly expensive and available. It's easy enough to shoot in a a full size gun. It seems to perform better then 9mm with barrier penetration and even cheap .40 JHPs perform as well as if not better then 9mm. Even the flat nose .40 FMJ is not a horrible defensive round(over penetration aside6
).

I get people who call it .40 Short and Weak and want to carry full house 10mm and it's good for hunting. but looking at most ammunition, testing, full power 10 mm either over expands or over penetrates with most modern defensive ammunition.

And the well regarded defensive/duty JHP loadings in 10mm are running more or less at hot .40 S&W velocities.

I understand why people don't like it for concealed carry, but why all the hate?

If ai had to use it as a cop gun, or in a home defense pistol it seems like it is a good middle of the round round for that purpose

This reminds me of Colion Noir’s videos about 9 vs 40 vs 45.

You need a lot of bullets, I carry a 9mm.

Well I only want to have to shoot them once, so I carry a 45.

Why not the best (or worst) of both worlds, so I carry a 40sw (or even worse a 357 sig).

My oldest gun is a Glock 22 C from the late 90s or early 2000s. I wanted to be a cop and that’s what they were carrying so that’s what I wanted to get used to.

 

[yanmarguy]

So i just got a police surplus glock 22, gun has minimal holster wear and looks unfired for like $260, but everyone seems to hate .40 with a passion, but why?

I understand there's more recoil and it can be if it's happy, and in compact and subcompact guns it sucks to shoot, but it doesn't seem that bad in service pistols.

The ammo isn't incredibly expensive and available. It's easy enough to shoot in a a full size gun. It seems to perform better then 9mm with barrier penetration and even cheap .40 JHPs perform as well as if not better then 9mm. Even the flat nose .40 FMJ is not a horrible defensive round(over penetration aside6
).

I get people who call it .40 Short and Weak and want to carry full house 10mm and it's good for hunting. but looking at most ammunition, testing, full power 10 mm either over expands or over penetrates with most modern defensive ammunition.

And the well regarded defensive/duty JHP loadings in 10mm are running more or less at hot .40 S&W velocities.

I understand why people don't like it for concealed carry, but why all the hate?

If ai had to use it as a cop gun, or in a home defense pistol it seems like it is a good middle of the round round for that purpose

Any round is a good round when that time comes!!