Why are we not demanding that private sales get the same access to background checks that store sales do. I see questions on here regularly of people asking about the CYA of FTF sales. This would ensure that all who are mentally ill cannot try to circumvent the laws by skirting the background check?
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Why are none of us asking for this legislation
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shibumiseeker
Grandmaster
Because as of yet I have not seen any evidence that adding more hoops would make any measurable difference.
Why would we be begging for more restrictions and legislation? Doesn't make any sense to me at all. Was it horrible that children died? Yeah. Does that mean I want more government? Nope. The correct thing to do would be to end some of the restrictions so that people have more ability to protect themselves.
This would end the argument about loopholes in getting your hands on a firearm. I know that everyone here will attack me over any mention of regulation but we must consider that this is a move to protect ourselves from future BS not to mention being the guy who did a FTF with what later turns out to be a murderer with no background check.
eldirector
Grandmaster
Well, one reason (among many) is that background checks have not prevented ANY of these latest tragedies. Either the weapons were purchased perfectly legally WITH a background check, or were stolen. So, more or better checks would not have any impact whatsoever.
Well, they might make the anti-freedom folks FEEL a little better. But, as they don't care how *I* feel, I also don't care how THEY feel.
How about we take a serious look at caring for our mentally ill first? That might help solve a whole RANGE of problems. I'm all about looking for the root cause....
Well, they might make the anti-freedom folks FEEL a little better. But, as they don't care how *I* feel, I also don't care how THEY feel.
How about we take a serious look at caring for our mentally ill first? That might help solve a whole RANGE of problems. I'm all about looking for the root cause....
I have spent the last couple days going at it with the "anti freedom crowd" as you call it on twitter. They cannot be swayed with logic or facts. If anyone has a better plan than getting rid of gun free zones or FTF sale background checks you should probably give the NRA a call. They need all the help they can get right now.
This, is WHY I REQUIRE a LTCH, and Id., when I sell a firearm. I also have a reciept signed by both the seller, and the buyer, and at LEAST one witness..... I sold a handgun, in Ca., in 1980, and still have the reciept .....
You still have the right to not go through with a sale if you think it's not a good idea. We need less government "help", not more.
IncendiaryGunner
Master
Because it will not have a positive impact, and I would personally have to jump through one more hoop just to buy firearms that I will never use in an unlawful manner.
Giving in to more restrictions has proven to not be beneficial for law abiding gun owners... give an inch, they take a mile...
Giving in to more restrictions has proven to not be beneficial for law abiding gun owners... give an inch, they take a mile...
eldirector
Grandmaster
Hit 'em right back with emotion.
You want to brand ME as a potential murderer, and restrict my rights to make you feel better? Fine. Let's repeal the 21st as well, and bring back prohibition. More folks die from alcohol-related incidents than gun-related. If you think *I* am a risk with my guns, then *YOU* are a risk with your booze.
That's unrealistic, you say? Well, thanks for MAKING MY POINT.
Hold your ground. Don't give in, and don't compromise. There is nothing the other side is willing give you in exchange, so it is a LOSS if we budge even a little.
You want to brand ME as a potential murderer, and restrict my rights to make you feel better? Fine. Let's repeal the 21st as well, and bring back prohibition. More folks die from alcohol-related incidents than gun-related. If you think *I* am a risk with my guns, then *YOU* are a risk with your booze.
That's unrealistic, you say? Well, thanks for MAKING MY POINT.
Hold your ground. Don't give in, and don't compromise. There is nothing the other side is willing give you in exchange, so it is a LOSS if we budge even a little.
Yes that is me in the avatar I apologize if this has been discussed previously as Its hard to keep up when your in the sandbox.
I only wish to have a constructive debate about the facts. I am open to any ideas to stopping these trageties as I am sure most americans are. That being said any ideas must not cause our rights to be taken. Perhaps we should look at the larger trends in social issues. The fact remains that the larger crime trend is that it is dropping. A well known Liberal pointed out to me in a discussion that "correlation does not equal causation". This is a proven fact but only if there is another variable influencing the issue.
The question is why are guns sales up,crime down (on the larger scale), and mass shootings up? We must solve that in order to maintain our freedoms. and I am open to any ideas including all sales going through background checks. It is the only reasonable argument I have heard that stands a chance of doing anything.
Take off the tin foil hats and get out their and speak up for your rights or you stand the chance of losing them
I only wish to have a constructive debate about the facts. I am open to any ideas to stopping these trageties as I am sure most americans are. That being said any ideas must not cause our rights to be taken. Perhaps we should look at the larger trends in social issues. The fact remains that the larger crime trend is that it is dropping. A well known Liberal pointed out to me in a discussion that "correlation does not equal causation". This is a proven fact but only if there is another variable influencing the issue.
The question is why are guns sales up,crime down (on the larger scale), and mass shootings up? We must solve that in order to maintain our freedoms. and I am open to any ideas including all sales going through background checks. It is the only reasonable argument I have heard that stands a chance of doing anything.
Take off the tin foil hats and get out their and speak up for your rights or you stand the chance of losing them
Excellent idea and the perfect tactic. I'm rep'ed out or I'd give ya some.
EDIT: And the timing on this article from the Huffing and Puffing Post couldn't be any better: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/11/alcohol-related-deaths-_n_821900.html
Media coverage. The wackos get to be remembered forever, even if it is being infamous rather than famous.
eldirector
Grandmaster
1) Decline of family values, and true nuclear families. More and more children are raised without strong family values and without a father figure in the home.
2) Over the last several decades, we have pushed the mentally unstable back to their families to deal with (without any assistance) or out unto the streets. We have reclassified dangerous individuals as non-mentally ill, and reduced the aid that was available.
3) We, as individuals, are less willing to intervene. Is it our overly litigious society, lack of personal accountability, or something else? I don't know. but, folks would rather turn their backs, pass the buck, or bury their heads in the sand than get involved. I'm NOT talking about during a "shooting" (it is already too late by then), but as soon as you KNOW something is wrong. For instance, the University of Colorado "solved" their problem by simply expelling Mr. Holmes, and letting someone else deal with him.
4) We have become more and more dependent on the "government" for everything. Surprise! They can't solve or provide everything! Never going to happen. Folks need to get re-involved in their OWN lives and make their own future. No one is going to save you, and no one is gong to make sure you are OK. That's YOUR job, so put down the iPhone and pay attention!
Oh, and as an aside, Mass Shootings are NOT UP.
No increase in mass shootings - James Alan Fox - Crime & Punishment blog - Boston.com
