Why are none of us asking for this legislation

[Captain Morgan]

1) Decline of family values, and true nuclear families. More and more children are raised without strong family values and without a father figure in the home.

2) Over the last several decades, we have pushed the mentally unstable back to their families to deal with (without any assistance) or out unto the streets. We have reclassified dangerous individuals as non-mentally ill, and reduced the aid that was available.

3) We, as individuals, are less willing to intervene. Is it our overly litigious society, lack of personal accountability, or something else? I don't know. but, folks would rather turn their backs, pass the buck, or bury their heads in the sand than get involved. I'm NOT talking about during a "shooting" (it is already too late by then), but as soon as you KNOW something is wrong. For instance, the University of Colorado "solved" their problem by simply expelling Mr. Holmes, and letting someone else deal with him.

4) We have become more and more dependent on the "government" for everything. Surprise! They can't solve or provide everything! Never going to happen. Folks need to get re-involved in their OWN lives and make their own future. No one is going to save you, and no one is gong to make sure you are OK. That's YOUR job, so put down the iPhone and pay attention!

Oh, and as an aside, Mass Shootings are NOT UP.
No increase in mass shootings - James Alan Fox - Crime & Punishment blog - Boston.com

I wholeheartedly agree with your post. However, I would like to see stats through the present date, rather than 2 years old. Has anyone compiled that data yet?

 

[ghuns]

While I prefer to keep my right to buy and sell face to face with whomever I choose, we have all been to the gun shows and seen the "private collection" sign over a both with more guns than many of the smaller dealers bring. These guys are tippie-toeing a fine line between the letter of the law and the intent of it that is going to lead to all of us loosing the ability to privately buy and sell firearms.

 

[eldirector]

I wholeheartedly agree with your post. However, I would like to see stats through the present date, rather than 2 years old. Has anyone compiled that data yet?

Not including last week;

Also note that a) these numbers do not match the first graph I posted, which was sourced from FBI data, and b) the second graph is from an anti-freedom publication that does not credit the source. I have NOT fact checked EITHER set of numbers.

 

[gunowner930]

This would end the argument about loopholes in getting your hands on a firearm. I know that everyone here will attack me over any mention of regulation but we must consider that this is a move to protect ourselves from future BS not to mention being the guy who did a FTF with what later turns out to be a murderer with no background check.

Rooster, you're not accurately assessing the motivations of those who wish to destroy our 2nd Amendment rights. If we give them what you're suggesting it won't stop, we'll just be giving them a little momentum. They won't be satisfied. Furthermore, if give them that new law, it won't stop or prevent anything and then they'll use it as justification to seek more. They're filthy rotten rats and they have no intention staying true to their word, nor should they be negotiated with.

 

[rooster]

Rooster, you're not accurately assessing the motivations of those who wish to destroy our 2nd Amendment rights. If we give them what you're suggesting it won't stop, we'll just be giving them a little momentum. They won't be satisfied. Furthermore, if give them that new law, it won't stop or prevent anything and then they'll use it as justification to seek more. They're filthy rotten rats and they have no intention staying true to their word, nor should they be negotiated with.

I dont disagree with anything you said there. My intention in this whole thread is a meaningful discussion free of tinfoil hats about a possible cause and solution. I know that what I suggested may not be the greatest idea but as I stated before it is the only one that would truthfully be about keeping guns away from the ones who shouldnt have them.

Yes the give an inch take a mile. Many ask where does it end. I dont know to be honest but I know that we need some idea of how to fix the problem. Yes this would in fact set up precedent to(eventually) stop all private firearm sales and is not unheard of around the world as a way of limiting all guns.

Maybe the solution lies in having more guns. If that is the case then we need to get a better strategy with the media and all of us need to invite some friends who dont own guns to go shoot and learn how to shoot. We need to grow our sport and our numbers to end the fear once and for all that our guns will be taken. This responsibility rests with every person here. Be a good representative of our community.

 

[cwillour]

Why are we not demanding that private sales get the same access to background checks that store sales do. I see questions on here regularly of people asking about the CYA of FTF sales. This would ensure that all who are mentally ill cannot try to circumvent the laws by skirting the background check?

Because, as a buyer, I do not want to give that type of personal information to somebody I do not know and does not have a commercial presence. Likewise, as a seller I would not trust a buyer to input "real" information into the system or to bring me a standard form that could easily have been copied and modified any more than I currently trust their showing me the DL and LTCH while stating both are current & valid (and that their are no laws preventing them from purchasing or possessing the firearm.)

 

[bigcraig]

For goodness sakes, CRIMINALS get there guns by any means, a NICS check on private sales will not stop theft.

Geez.

 

[coyotehunter4]

Why is everybody focusing on gun control. What about the fact that our president and legislators cut millions from school budgets for security last year!!!! I haven't seen anything on the news about that, but it is a fact.

 

[rnmcguire]

Here's the deal. First, nearly ALL of these mass shootings occur at the hands of people with NO CRIMINAL HISTORY. And Second, background checks don't tell you if someone is CRAZY! Background checks on private gun sales won't do a thing to stop this kind of thing. You cannot depend on laws and governments to protect you. We have gotten spoiled as a society. Wake up America and defend yourself! NEVER give up that right!

 

[The Bubba Effect]

I believe that you can currently transfer a firearm through an FFL from one private individual to another. They put it on a 4473 and run a NICs, right?

 

[AJMD429]

The DANGER of having a government know who owns what is FAR GREATER than the danger of a few isolated nut-cases (who only 'succeed' because we've disarmed the teachers).

Consistently around the world for the past century over 5,000 innocent citizens per DAY are murdered by their own police and military, vs. the few dozen per day killed by psychopaths.

So - is it more important to make some token, ineffective effort to prevent psychos from getting guns, or more important to keep the government's hands off them...???

 

[Bunnykid68]

Because as of yet I have not seen any evidence that adding more hoops would make any measurable difference.

Hoops are good for basketball games

 

[Bunnykid68]

I believe that you can currently transfer a firearm through an FFL from one private individual to another. They put it on a 4473 and run a NICs, right?

Not so much as a transfer as just having a background check run on the person purchasing the gun.

 

[sepe]

Hoops are good for basketball games

Purists prefer a peach basket but before they removed the bottom, it was a bit of a PITA getting the ball back down.

 

[rooster]

Consistently around the world for the past century over 5,000 innocent citizens per DAY are murdered by their own police and military, vs. the few dozen per day killed by psychopaths.

You care to throw up a source or a citation to back this up?

 

[JettaKnight]

The DANGER of having a government know who owns what is FAR GREATER than the danger of a few isolated nut-cases (who only 'succeed' because we've disarmed the teachers).

Please don't confuse the issue by bringing up the old rumor that the gov't logs ownership. Dealers log the sales. I know a few dealers that would, "lose records from water damage due to a mysteriously burst pipe" should the gov't want those records.

Would having all sales go through a dealer help? No. Just another burden on law abiders that would put up a short wall for purchasing illegal firearms that'd be easy to hop over. I'd do it cause it's the law. A scofflaw wouldn't, or would do what they always do, get a straw purchaser.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Why are we not demanding that private sales get the same access to background checks that store sales do.

A worthy question, roo. Here is why:

1. Because it is a prior restraint on a constitutional right.

2. Because it is unenforceable. An unenforcebable law creates disrespect for the rule of law and the civil society as a whole.

3. Because it is a proven failure. From 1974 to 1998, far beyond the memory of the median age of INGO, every handgun transfer in Indiana had to be completed through a dealer. The compliance rate was less than minimal and it stopped no criminals. It was an utter failure.

 

[findingZzero]

More government regulation is NEVER the answer.

Just cause it makes a good poster doesn't make it true. Stop thinking in slogans and exercise that flabby brain......
Fire codes, electrical codes, building codes.

I am not here to educate you, just to **** you off.

 

[GMtoblat]

Originally Posted by rockhopper46038
Laws aren't supposed to be passed to make people "comfortable". In my opinion, laws are supposed to prohibit and provide penalty for behavior that has a definitive, measureable, deleterious effect on a society that agrees to be bound by such laws. We have far too many laws currently on the books that do not meet this standard, and we do not need more of the same.

taken from my post last week, same question

 

[cosermann]

To wallow in similar arguments, see thread below (referred to earlier by GMtoblat):

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo..._2nd_amendment/251732-gun_show_loop_hole.html