Why do you think a .32 ACP is not a good carry gun?

[BehindBlueI's]

I will say that you cannot take the "stats" alone and get the whole idea behind the authors article. I read the thing and when I came across those numbers I was thinking the same thing and almost bailed on the remainder of the article. I didn't and am glad to have continued. The author attempts to give as much data as possible and then digest that and give it back to the audience in useable bits. He readily admits the flaws in his approach. He speaks to the psychological stoppages as well as physiological. I don't think it was value added to have raced to the chart and not read the entirety of the piece.

I've read the piece, and similar, before. I still maintain it's useless.

There is good data out there for the performance of specific cartridges, because there are organizations with the time, talent, and treasure to do the very heavy lifting required to make something useful of it. It is all dedicated to duty rounds, because that's what those people care about.

If it was me, I'd pick something off DocGKR's list and call it a day unless some physical ailment prevented me from carrying a common duty caliber.

 

[Beowulf]

Thanks for the laugh.

"One shot stop" percentages from the link:

.32 ACP - 40%
.380 ACP - 44%
.38 Special - 39%
9mm - 34%
.357 Sig/Magnum - 44%
.40 S&W - 45%
.45 ACP - 39%
.44 Mag - 59%

Glad to know that my little Glock 42 .380 is more effective than a 9mm, .38 Special or .45 and matches the .357 magnum in "stopping power."

Talk about burying the lead. Forget about .32 vs .380.... I want to know more about the 41% of bad guys who shrugged off a shot from a .44 mag. Yikes.

 

[ru44mag]

I've read the piece, and similar, before. I still maintain it's useless.

There is good data out there for the performance of specific cartridges, because there are organizations with the time, talent, and treasure to do the very heavy lifting required to make something useful of it. It is all dedicated to duty rounds, because that's what those people care about.

If it was me, I'd pick something off DocGKR's list and call it a day unless some physical ailment prevented me from carrying a common duty caliber.

Agreed. I think maybe the OP is trying to say just that. Perhaps a physical ailment is keeping him, and others from carrying a more effective round. Being able to shoot a .32 ACP is much better than a sharp stick in that case. At least he is not trying to push that a .25 ACP is an effective self defense round!

 

[ru44mag]

Talk about burying the lead. Forget about .32 vs .380.... I want to know more about the 41% of bad guys who shrugged off a shot from a .44 mag. Yikes.

They were all werewolves. Or maybe Beowulf.

 

[ru44mag]

Thanks for the laugh.

"One shot stop" percentages from the link:

.32 ACP - 40%
.380 ACP - 44%
.38 Special - 39%
9mm - 34%
.357 Sig/Magnum - 44%
.40 S&W - 45%
.45 ACP - 39%
.44 Mag - 59%

Glad to know that my little Glock 42 .380 is more effective than a 9mm, .38 Special or .45 and matches the .357 magnum in "stopping power."

My job here is done. I got someone to laugh.

 

[sparkyfender]

My first carry gun was a Beretta Tomcat.

I don't carry it anymore, but would before I left the house with no gun what so ever.........

I'm not enthusiastic about .32 acp, but it's gotta be better than a pointy stick.

 

[Thor]

IIRC More pistols have been manufactured to fire the 7.65mm Browning than any other cartridge. Today I carried a Walther PP with Hornady Critical Defense jacketed hollow points. I've seen tests where they penetrate two layers of denim and 17" of ballistic gel. Seemed okay for the Kroger store...if I was expecting trouble I would have brought a rifle and wouldn't have been standing out in the open.

 

[sliptap]

This website has a few ballistic gel tests on the .32 ACP: Pocket Guns and Gear: Ammo Tests . I don't know if anyone has mentioned, but can't .32 ACP also rimlock? That would be a little upsetting in a life or death scenario.

Everyone has their own preference on the bare minimum caliber. If I knew I was going into a fire fight, I would have a rifle. Personally, a .380 is the minimum I will go and I try hard to carry a 9mm if possible.

 

[Route 45]

My first carry gun was a Beretta Tomcat.

I don't carry it anymore, but would before I left the house with no gun what so ever.........

I'm not enthusiastic about .32 acp, but it's gotta be better than a pointy stick.

It's likely better than a .22 or .25 ACP. But if you experience rimlock (only happens with the .32 ACP), a sharp stick may be more effective.

 

[HoughMade]

I carry a 2mm Kolibri. I think for myself.

If you can't get it done with 3 ft/lbs, you need to work on shot placement.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Talk about burying the lead. Forget about .32 vs .380.... I want to know more about the 41% of bad guys who shrugged off a shot from a .44 mag. Yikes.

 

[HoughMade]

Talk about burying the lead. Forget about .32 vs .380.... I want to know more about the 41% of bad guys who shrugged off a shot from a .44 mag. Yikes.

The inherent problem with "one shot stop" statistics is we don't know what was hit with the .44 Mag....and I'm not so sure that "shrugged off" would quite cover it, though if PCP is in play....

 

[ru44mag]

I carry a 2mm Kolibri. I think for myself.

If you can't get it done with 3 ft/lbs, you need to work on shot placement.

Ahh, the hummingbird. Now that is a classic. A literal mouse gun if ever there was one.

 

[medcoxo]

.32 Buffalo Bore 75 grain. I read up a lot when I was going to switch to the P32, and that was the best performing round. And it performed up to the middle class .380.
I am still with the better to have something in your pocket besides your fist kind of guy.

 

[HoughMade]

I'm in the "why be limited by my pockets when I have a perfectly good holster and 12+1 rounds of 9mm in my waistband" camp.

 

[T-Mann]

I'm in the "why be limited by my pockets when I have a perfectly good holster and 12+1 rounds of 9mm in my waistband" camp.

And that isn't a bad camp to be in....but then there are people like my wife, who are recoil sensitive. She doesn't mind the recoil of a full-sized 9, like say a FNX-9, or a 1911 in 45acp, but those aren't convenient to carry concealed. However, when the firearms become smaller and lighter, the recoil tends to bother her more. So she settled on the PK380. Sure there are 9mm that are smaller (many of which I own) for her to carry, but their recoil is markedly higher (Shield9 7.3lbft, LC9 7.7lbft, 709 Slim 7.0lbft......or PK380 3.4lbft). She is able to keep her rounds on target and she actually practices (and enjoys) shooting it. So there are many reasons why someone would choose a smaller caliber even though there are higher calibers in smaller frames available.

I'm in the camp of find something that you will take to the range and shoot/carry rather than something you don't like shooting that you take to the range once and then throw in a drawer.

 

[OakRiver]

Talk about burying the lead. Forget about .32 vs .380.... I want to know more about the 41% of bad guys who shrugged off a shot from a .44 mag. Yikes.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

And that isn't a bad camp to be in....but then there are people like my wife, who are recoil sensitive. She doesn't mind the recoil of a full-sized 9, like say a FNX-9, or a 1911 in 45acp, but those aren't convenient to carry concealed. However, when the firearms become smaller and lighter, the recoil tends to bother her more. So she settled on the PK380. Sure there are 9mm that are smaller (many of which I own) for her to carry, but their recoil is markedly higher (Shield9 7.3lbft, LC9 7.7lbft, 709 Slim 7.0lbft......or PK380 3.4lbft). She is able to keep her rounds on target and she actually practices (and enjoys) shooting it. So there are many reasons why someone would choose a smaller caliber even though there are higher calibers in smaller frames available.

I'm in the camp of find something that you will take to the range and shoot/carry rather than something you don't like shooting that you take to the range once and then throw in a drawer.

.

I completely get that. My grandmother successfully defended herself with a .22, and pointing alone resolved the issue. When asked about recommendations for guns to look at for my SGT's father (in his mid 80s) the .327 SP101 was one I recommended they take a look at and one that he eventually selected. The .327 Fed Mag can use a bunch of different cartridges at different power levels. As his hands deteriorate further, he can step down in power.

None of that changes the terminal ballistics of a given cartridge. Sometimes it's not about "best", it's about "least bad" given available options. The .32 may be that 'least bad' option for some folks. Having seen a lot of people shot with it, I have little confidence in it. Sure, if everything goes right you can get good penetration. I think about things like deflection off round bone, the need to penetrate heavy clothing, the need to penetrate a forearm, cross an air gap, then enter the torso and make good, etc. because sometimes things don't go just right.

On a side note, I just sat through a class on terminal ballistics given by a forensic pathologist today. A good portion of it was well-trodden ground for me, but I did pick up some interesting new information. This was the book recommended to us for further study: https://www.amazon.com/Gunshot-Woun...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1493169852&sr=1-1

 

[cosermann]

Not saying one way or the other, just information I found.

https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power

Just an excerpt to chew on from the above reference: "The lower caliber rounds (.22, .25, .32) had a FAILURE rate that was roughly DOUBLE that of the higher caliber rounds." (Emphasis mine.)

 

[Beowulf]

The inherent problem with "one shot stop" statistics is we don't know what was hit with the .44 Mag....and I'm not so sure that "shrugged off" would quite cover it, though if PCP is in play....

I don't know... 88% head or torso hits, so probably not limb wounds. Of course, if people are prone to double tap, it's kind of hard to tell if one round would do the job or not (though that's some hefty recoil for quick follow up shots, unless you are shooting something massive like a Desert Eagle that can soak up a lot of that... assuming it doesn't jam on you like mine does half the time).

.44 Magnum# of people shot - 24
# of hits - 41
% of hits that were fatal - 26%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 1.71
% of people who were not incapacitated - 13%
One-shot-stop % - 59%
Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 88%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 53%

Still, though, 13% kept coming after being hit. Got to admire that level of tenacity (though I don't want to be on the wrong end of that).