Why does everyone love the Remington 870 so much?

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  • billt

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    Oct 25, 2010
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    This had made the trip around cyberspace much like the infamous "chart" for AR-15 rifles. It points out the differences of the various models of the 870.

    Here's the actual differences between the Wingmaster, the Police, and the Express guns:

    The Express is Remington's "budget" gun, made to compete with the cheaper to make Winchester and Mossberg guns.

    The Wingmaster is Remington "Cadillac" top-of-the-line sporting gun.

    The Police is a Wingmaster with a dull finish and is a much more carefully inspected and built gun.

    How Remington lowered the Express price was to reduce hand labor to a bare minimum, and to eliminate much of the polishing and de-burring the better quality Wingmaster and Police guns get.

    The Express is basically the same milled steel receiver and heavy-duty internals gun the better 870's are, just in a rougher, less well finished form with plastic and MIM parts.

    The Express Model has:
    A plastic trigger group.
    The dimples in the mag tube and the new style plastic magazine retention system, EXCEPT on the extended magazine version, which does NOT have the dimples.
    A rougher finish inside and outside, with machine marks and some burrs left.
    A rougher, bead blasted blue job.
    A less polished bore.
    A two piece barrel. (not 100% sure about this)
    Hardwood or synthetic stock, with a sporting-length fore end and pressed-in checkering.
    The Defense version has 18", Cylinder bore barrel, with a bead sight.
    Some Metal Injection Molded (MIM) parts, like the extractor.
    Has the locking safety button.

    The Wingmaster has:
    An aluminum trigger group.
    The old style magazine retention system.
    A much smoother finish inside and out, no machine marks or burrs.
    The Wingmaster gun receives a higher level of inspection and finishing.
    A fine, commercial polished blue finish.
    A polished bore.
    A one piece barrel.
    A chrome plated bolt.
    Walnut stocks with the famous "Bowling Pin" finish in gloss or satin and better checkering.
    Wide choices in barrel lengths and choke options.
    No use of MIM parts, the extractor is milled.
    The Wingmaster is the full top-of-the-line commercial Remington pump gun, and is priced accordingly.

    The 870 Police has:
    An aluminum trigger group.
    The old style magazine retention system.
    A much smoother finish inside and out, no machine marks or burrs.
    The Police gun receives a higher level of inspection and finishing.
    A military-grade parkerized finish.
    A polished bore.
    A one piece barrel.
    Walnut or synthetic stock, with a short police-length fore end.
    The Remington “R3” super recoil pad that reduced felt recoil by 30%.
    Choices in different stocks, including Speedfeed, and others.
    18" to 20" improved cylinder barrel, with a wide choice in sights, including rifle, ghost ring, and luminous.
    Police options like magazine extenders, forearms with built-in lights, and sling swivels.
    Heavy-duty magazine spring.
    Heavy-duty trigger-sear spring.
    Sling swivel mounts.
    No use of MIM parts, the extractor is milled.

    The Express is a "bottom of the line" budget gun, the Wingmaster is a "top of the line" sporting gun, the Police is the top-of-the-line in defense guns.
     

    billt

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    So I would gather from the information posted on the various 870 models, that a Remington Express is on the same quality level of a Mossberg 500, or Maverick 88. An 870 Police would be more in line with the Mossberg 590 A-1 Mil-Spec. From there you can quibble about price, along with which is the better buy, the better gun, etc.
     

    cce1302

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    Ok I'll throw another one into the mix: Mossberg 835.


    358C4B7E-DD41-4E2D-B97D-8F37EADCF3B1.jpg



    The Mossberg goes with me when I go shoot.


    The Remington sits under the bed.


    Mossberg's loading mechanism is superior to Remington's, and they have the safety in the right place.
     

    45fan

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    As a fan of the 870, I will agree that the Mossberg safety is in a more intuitive place for a conventional stock. Add a PG, or PGO stock to that same Mossy, and getting the safety off in any sort of timely or graceful fashion turns into an exercise in futility fast.

    I have shot the 500 and 870 on various shotgun fam fire courses, and overall, the Remington (not express) has been a better fit for me. I am sure that a big part of this is becasue I grew up with the 870s, and Mossbergs came into my shooting life later on, but the fit, finish, and durability of the 870 has always outshined the 500 in my experience.

    Someone mentioned Benelli. This brings an entire new argument to the shotgun of choice, IMHO. I have not had quite as much experience with the Benelli selections as I have the other shotguns, but I have had enough to know they are a fine scattergun, and worth looking into if they are not out of your price range. I am not a big fan of the autos, but Benellis might have changed my opinion in that area.
     

    DoggyDaddy

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    The Express vs. Wingmaster comparison reminds me of when I was going to General Motors Institute. Had some friends that worked for a Chevy truck plant. GMC trucks were made at the same plant, on the same assembly line. The joke they would tell was that the difference between the Chevy trucks and the GMCs was that they tightened the bolts on the GMCs. :):
     

    billt

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    Someone mentioned Benelli. This brings an entire new argument to the shotgun of choice, IMHO. I have not had quite as much experience with the Benelli selections as I have the other shotguns, but I have had enough to know they are a fine scattergun, and worth looking into if they are not out of your price range. I am not a big fan of the autos, but Benellis might have changed my opinion in that area.

    The best description I've ever heard of the Benelli M-4 is: "The absolute best $650.00 shotgun you can buy....For $1,700.00 dollars."
     

    45fan

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    The best description I've ever heard of the Benelli M-4 is: "The absolute best $650.00 shotgun you can buy....For $1,700.00 dollars."


    They are pricey, for what they are. I have seen them for less than $1700, but still too rich for my blood. A good, solid pump gun sends enough lead fast enough for my needs.
     

    roadrunner681

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    this is kinda a pointless argument, they both work fine so why does it matter pick the gun you like and the one you can afford. for me it seems like mossbergs fit me better than the Remingtons. but i have to admit the cz 712 has my attention now.
     

    kawtech87

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    Most any CZ is getting my attention. They're making some nice guns these days.

    CZ's shotguns are a contract build and are only branded CZ. They are made in Turkey by a company who's name escapes me right now. Still, they are made to CZ's specs and are a fine shotgun for the money. I would not hesitate to own one.

    Also CZ has been making fine guns for some time now. It's just recently that their popularity has started to catch on in the US. ;)
     
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    strokin7.3

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    CZ's shotguns are a contract build and are only branded CZ. They are made in Turkey by a company who's name escapes me right now. Still, they are made to CZ's specs and are a fine shotgun for the money. I would not hesitate to own one.

    Also CZ has been making fine guns for some time now. It's just recently that their popularity has started to catch one in the US. ;)


    I believe it is Huglu who makes the shottys for them.
     

    danielson

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    If your mind is made up, don't worry about what other people prefer. Sounds to me like you're not very secure in your own decision though if you're still that hung up on why so many others prefer the 870.
    Theres a difference between being curious and being worried. If you think I'm insecure in my own choice, because I am interested in what makes other people think differently than me, you haven't really thought about this much.

    Like I said, I owned both and sold the 500. It was a great gun, just not as great as the 870.

    409364036.jpg


    That 870 looks ALOT better than the express I shot, and the ones I see on the shelf these days.



    then nothing we say will change your mind. (Again, not what Im looking for here) Your just looking for a fight so to speak.(So a friendly discussion is a fight?)
    As far as used prices being ridiculous to use as a comparison because the prices fluctuate so much. , I could say the same for new prices. I'd never pay more than what I mentioned above for basic models of those guns so that's why I used it as a personal example. If you don't like ANY answer your gonna get then why ask?
    Because, if you read all the posts by people who arent you, theres alot of quality info in this thread already. You might be able to contribute to that, if you would stop being combative.
     
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    chezuki

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    Theres a difference between being curious and being worried. If you think I'm insecure in my own choice, because I am interested in what makes other people think differently than me, you haven't really thought about this much.
    I haven't. I rarely spend ANY time pondering other people's personal preferences... especially if they don't effect me.

    That 870 looks ALOT better than the express I shot, and the ones I see on the shelf these days.

    FWIW, that is an 870 Express 7 Shot that I purchased new in 2007. Neither I nor Bob at PSS could figure why it had the "tactical/police" forend. None of the other's he had with that same model # did, they all had the standard checkered Express synthetic forend.
     

    Captain Bligh

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    I prefer the 870 for two reasons. I prefer Remington's safety location on the trigger guard. Your finger is laying alongside the trigger guard anyway so it seems a shorter and more intuitive action to press the safety as your finger is going to the trigger. I find this to be an advantage for hunting birds or rabbits. The gun is ready faster than having to thumb a top tang safety and then moving finger to the trigger guard. Reason two for me is the Mossberg front end slop. It's noisy and it rattles, which is not ideal if you are using it for a stealthier hunting purpose such as squirrels or turkeys. I obviously went with the Remington. That said neither of these guns hold a candle to my Browning A-5.
     

    ShootnCut

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    In answer to the OP's question...........
    In the 1970's I was shooting my Mossberg 500 and the slide assembly came apart.
    In the 1980's I was shooting a friends 590 and the hand guard came apart.
    In the 1990's I was shucking a friends 500 and the laser equipped forearm came apart.
    Last year a friend gave me a Mossberg 410 that belonged to his dad to fix. When you pumped the action it puked every shell out of the magazine. I found that this was common and Mossberg offered a replacement shell stop and shell interrupter to cure the problem. After numerous calls to numerous people in their customer service department I finally received the replacement parts in about 2 1/2 weeks. I replaced the old parts with the new, (yes, correctly) worked the action and it still puked out every shell.
    I've owned several 870's both Wingmaster and Express and the only problem I've ever had with the Express was crooked sights.
    As far as the Mossbergs, based on my experience, I'll never own another. I've heard they've improved them but I'll never trust them again.
     

    Amishman44

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    I had a 500 set up as a deer gun...but my wife wasn't so thrilled about a 12 GA! So I got rid of it and now I LOVE my wife's 870 Tactical in 20 GA! She loves it too...and is darn smooth while shooting it...she's a 'natural' I would say!

    She didn't like my 12 GA due to recoil so I started looking around and ended up finding a Remington 870 Tactical (has factory extended mag tube installed) and got her one. Installed a Meprolight Tritium front night sight, a 4-shot shell holder on the left side of the frame, changed out the butt-stock to a youth-size and slide a noeprene 5 shot shell holder on it. Picked up a nylon sling and, 'dang' she's ready! Wife is very comfortable shooting #3 shot and 3/4 oz slugs through it! I have no doubts that she'll grab it if necessary to protect herself or the kids when I'm not home!
     

    Hookeye

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    Every Express I've owned had a metal trigger guard ;) Older Express models have the old mag spring retainer. "One piece barrel".............uh, I thought all barrel rings brazed on, regardless of model. Sounds like somebody is confusing Remchokes vs fixed choke...........as pieces.

    Wingmatsers get "polished" internals. Yeah.............wasn't that what they called "Vibrahoned" (fancy talk for dumped in a tumbler so the rough edges get pounded off)? The old shiny finish............RKW........................seen many a dimpled one at K Marts back in the day. Just because it's shiny that doesn't mean the finish was good!

    Pre "Express" model Remington had the "Sportsman 12". It was blued, but not as shiny as a regular Wingmaster, and not as matte as the later Express.
    If you look at the Special Purpose models, they had a trough (machined groove) where you looked down the receiver (same as Wingmaster but maybe without anti glare)..........Express just had a flat......which gets you a thread or two more if D&T for a scope base.

    All Express 12 gauge shotguns have magnum receivers. Dunno what all changes were made but you can reportedly get non magnum Wingmasters - all I ever bought were "magnums" :)

    And....................for a while, you could get an Express with a walnut stock, the checkering was pressed though.

    IIRC new Wingmasters have the new style mag spring retainer.
     
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