Why I will never become an FFL dealer

[sbcman]

Thanks for sharing that list! Might have to give them a call and see if I can get in on some cheap crap.

 

[andrew]

Never seen that website. Is it a good place to buy guns?

 

[TopDog]

I consider most of the list "cheap crap." I prefer 1911's at least made somewhere else than the Phillipines or Brazil. For this reason I can't buy most Springfield 1911's.

I guess I just want to stimulate the AMERICAN economy.

Also the fact that the Sigma line of pistols made that list twice and the M&P line didn't make it once shows me people don't care about quality, just that it goes bang.

Cant fault you one bit for wanting to buy American.

 

[melensdad]

Because so many people buy cheap crap that has little to no markup.

Example 1:
Buds recently sent me an email about the most sold guns for 2011. The most expensive pistol is a Taurus 1911 with GOLD ACCENTS. Oh yea, hi point made the list too.

I think I will find other ways to make money. . .

Byron, I used to buy a lot of stuff from C.N.I. in Crown Point before Chuck retired and moved. I was shocked at the LOW MARGINS he was making. He was literally selling ammo at $1 a box above cost and was often more expensive than others. His new guns were marked up about $50 each and then people expected 10% and 15% discounts.

So a gun that cost him $450 he would try to sell for $500 and people wanted a $50 to $75 discount. Uh, not a great way to make a living!

Used guns were marked up about DOUBLE and that is the same margin that I've heard from other dealers.

Worse yet are the "internet buyers" who come in and expect the dealer to meet a Gunbroker price but those folks don't count on shipping costs, transfer fees, etc. Oh, and they want to pay with a credit card which typically costs the store about 3% just to take your credit card.

 

[NullSyndrome]

The only firearm I ever ordered online was an inline muzzleloader that was on clearance from Natchez Shooters Supply, and they can be delivered to your door. Any other firearm I have purchased, inexpensive or not, I have bought from local dealers. It's just not worth the hassle of shipping and transfer fees to me. Plus, I like to actually look at and handle the piece I'm going to buy. I've bought some less expensive guns before, but none of them were junk, just "no frills."

 

[hooky]

I consider most of the list "cheap crap." I prefer 1911's at least made somewhere else than the Phillipines or Brazil. For this reason I can't buy most Springfield 1911's.

I guess I just want to stimulate the AMERICAN economy.

Also the fact that the Sigma line of pistols made that list twice and the M&P line didn't make it once shows me people don't care about quality, just that it goes bang.

At least 5 of those are american made and I can personally vouch that 4 of those 5 are not crap.

 

[03A3]

We're all fortunate that we have so many choices of type-brand-price range-ect.

 

[Brando]

Glad to see ZX Guns price for the SR9C is right there with Buds price. 380 @ the Fort Wayne gun show last weekend. Shoulda bought then.

 

[Sirshredalot]

Ya make a valid point, but money is not necessarily "harder" to come by...its just that most everything else costs more as well...like tax hikes, milk, gas, insurance, tires, etc etc etc.

Gun prices have gone up...ALOT in the past say 3 years....but I doubt that manufacturing costs have increased at the same rate...Alot of manufacturers are getting greedy.

Everyone price shops too...not looking for a better deal is foolish.

I would prefer to support a local business, but I recall from personal experience when pricing an XD9, I found an "average price" online, added the $25 shipping fee and the $10 FFL fee...I then added an additional 10% to support my "local" business...

My price was within $25 of the asking price and he wouldnt meet me...So he didnt sell one...and I know this "local" dealer has sold them cheaper than what I offered before.
An he was selling just the pistol and mags, not the "package" I priced online.

Failing to compete when they are able to is just that...failing.

Im not asking dealers to lose money on sales...or to sell at cost, but to be reasonable....odds are if you can get it cheaper somewhere else...you will.

Same thing goes for used guns...a LNIB gun that sell for 10% less than new is understandable....but the cop trade beretta 92fs with heavy finish wear and only one mag will NEVER sell for $550....nor will that used glock 19 in the same shape sell for $475...faded night sights, one mag, finish worn to bare metal, etc.

Some dealers have their heads in their butts.

$.02

God bless
-Shred

 

[IN1911]

I could get my guns a little cheaper if I shopped around but I'm not that kind of guy. My local shop has very fair prices and because I am in there multiple times a week, they know me by name just as I know theirs. They have known me for years and I am only 22. I know personal things about them and they know things about me, my preferences and what my budget based on what I have bought there. It's like an extention of my family when I walk in there, I call that store my second home.

My purchases in that store will never make the owner rich, I simply lack the finances to do so but I do buy things fairly regularly. After transfer fees, I can do better than most online places there because I am in there so much. Even if the gun I was buying was $10 or $20 more expensive than if I got it online, I would still buy local to support this shop. They have treated me like family and I will never go anywhere else.

Most shops don't make a ton off guns like that anyway. They make money off of bulk purchases, ammo, and mid to higher end guns and used guns...

 

[turnandshoot4]

Byron, I used to buy a lot of stuff from C.N.I. in Crown Point before Chuck retired and moved. I was shocked at the LOW MARGINS he was making. He was literally selling ammo at $1 a box above cost and was often more expensive than others. His new guns were marked up about $50 each and then people expected 10% and 15% discounts.

So a gun that cost him $450 he would try to sell for $500 and people wanted a $50 to $75 discount. Uh, not a great way to make a living!

Used guns were marked up about DOUBLE and that is the same margin that I've heard from other dealers.

Worse yet are the "internet buyers" who come in and expect the dealer to meet a Gunbroker price but those folks don't count on shipping costs, transfer fees, etc. Oh, and they want to pay with a credit card which typically costs the store about 3% just to take your credit card.

THIS! I entertained getting an FFL but decided against it when I realized how little the profit margin was! Good post!

At least 5 of those are american made and I can personally vouch that 4 of those 5 are not crap.

I am sure there are plenty that aren't crap. Of those 4 do they function? Group well? What is their intended purpose? Do they suit that purpose well? I understand a pocket pistol doesn't need to group like a target pistol but it shouldn't bite the web of my hand either.

I also have an aversion to pocket pistols.

We're all fortunate that we have so many choices of type-brand-price range-ect.

Very true!

Gun prices have gone up...ALOT in the past say 3 years....but I doubt that manufacturing costs have increased at the same rate...Alot of manufacturers are getting greedy.

Some dealers have their heads in their butts.

If Mark Larue wants to fly around in his plane than he has earned it. I will continue to buy his gear because it is higher quality. I wouldn't exactly call that "greedy." Furthermore, I would rather have Mr. Larue rich than someone who could have EASILY sent his business to Mexico or Canada or the Philipines or Brazil or China. I'll make him rich any day.

Those dealers are trying to put food on the table. Just like you and me.

Great overall post though! Rep inbound.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

The average income in Indiana is down 10%. Right now, especialy with being in school, I can not afford to buy $800 + guns. In fact, I have to sell two guns because I need the money. If you only stock high end stuff, you are not going to sell much.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Taurus sells every single Judge they make. The Kel-Tec bombs in a box sell quickly. Look at how many times Charter Arms comes back to life.

When I sold guns it was the Lorcins, Sundances and Jennings. We called them "popcorn guns" because they sold like hot popcorn.

It's the market at work. Since people do not shoot their guns, the market demands a gun at the lowest price.

 

[jgreiner]

Just like u said some of us cant afford those $1300 1911's because of kids and disposable income is getting harder and harder to come by. Although I'd like to have the inventory of an FFL dealer.

LOL...if I did.....I would spend ALL my time out shooting

 

[hooky]

I am sure there are plenty that aren't crap. Of those 4 do they function? Group well? What is their intended purpose? Do they suit that purpose well? I understand a pocket pistol doesn't need to group like a target pistol but it shouldn't bite the web of my hand either.

I was speaking about the 5 Rugers. The LCP is the only one that I don't own or haven't shot. The 22/45 is a tack driver and the gun I shoot the most. I'll actually squirrel hunt with it when the leaves thin out a little more. The SR9 is accurate right out the box and I haven't had a single malfunction in the ~1500 rounds I've put through it. A good friend has the SR9c and shooting it was what helped me decide to get the full size. I share your aversion to pocket pistols, but after shooting a few mags through another friend's LC9, I am thinking hard about getting one for summer carry and hoping my wife would take an interest in one.

I think Ruger is making some good guns that are a great value, especially when you factor in the customer service they provide.

The only other guns on the list that I have experience with is the 9mm Sigma and it wasn't for me.

 

[henktermaat]

...Now that I am older...with one almost through college, I have more disposable income. So instead of $200 pocket guns, I am looking at the $1300 1911's.

I am looking forward to that phase of life Until then It's used guns and cheap guns for me.

 

[jgreiner]

I am looking forward to that phase of life Until then It's used guns and cheap guns for me.

I still have one to go...but with each one...the cash flow improves....

 

[tgallmey]

in any retail its not always what you want its what sells. that said most non gun nuts are just wanting a something that works. alot of people will basically spend one weeks paycheck on a firearm so depending on your area it could be $700 or $200. Most people will buy a gun in the 4-$500 range. Also most people dont understand why that Colt Python cost $1500 and the Taurus next to it is $350. In my mind you have to keep people coming back and telling there friends so if you keep a low markup I.E. its better to sell 2 guns and make $100 than one gun and make $100 higher numbers with more people in your store. I hope that one day I can open a shop cause its what I love

 

[Disposable Heart]

Used guns is pretty much where it's at for the dealers. But, if you try to make any money there, then folks scream about horrible trade in values... Seems (having worked during the Panic and during some of the Recession) is that there are some constants:
1. Customers' expectations of guns remain constantly high, but quality has to be paid for to meet that expectation. Fact of life.
2. There are some darn good low margin all star guns. They just don't make the dealer any money (nor distributor at that count).
3. Cheap guns are going to sell, and in this case, I mean cheap as in lower quality materials/workmanship. The vast majority of folks that came into our shop (Mooresville and Martinsville) bought cheap guns. Some would buy a nice Browning, but mostly crap Judges, decent Keltecs, inexpensive Bersas, etc... Ruger actually sold decent, but not as good as the cheaper ones.
4. 7/10 people that bought the guns are simply gun owners, not shooters. That gun may not see a cleaning brush, quality ammo or range time outside of one box. It is confined to the glovebox of the truck or the underwear drawer next to the laceteddy you didn't tell your wife about...

The Recession brought out the worst in folks: Want high, pay low and were darn near militant about it. I am sympathetic towards folks that need a gun, but can't afford a high end piece. But, I cannot be sympathetic to folks that want to haggle over a new gun price b/c they want a gun they can't afford. I knew my margins, heck, I used to tell folks it and they still pitched a fit about it. One even called me a Communist b/c I would not trade him even for his ratted out Winny pump action for a LNIB Browning HP. Got $300? You can get a darn good gun. But, don't expect a Glock for that much and don't gripe at me about it! Oh, the stories, people slamming doors, knocking stuff over, all b/c Johnny Rae Huckle*&^% was riled up 'cause he couldn't afford that Colt in the case...

 

[youngda9]

The most expensive pistol is a Taurus 1911 with GOLD ACCENTS.
6. Bushmaster CAR15 223 16 BSH REDD DOT for $699 DELIVERED
15. Taurus M1911 45 Stainless W/Gold Highlights for $504 DELIVERED

^^ Just sayin