Why not adjustable gas blocks and tuning tips on AR's

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  • Goodcat

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    A lot of ruffled feathers I see, but I agree 100% with Ltromann on all topics and opinions discussed in this thread. Gas systems are tuned with buffers and springs (namely sprinco), A5 system rules, don’t use adjustible gas blocks. And for the love of God don’t use anti-rotation pins. And stake your castle nuts.
     

    ltromann

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    Ah ok, that's your opinion of the whole point. If you don't need one, then once it's working, why adjust it? Your logic is interesting, and you didn't say if you have any experience with one. Regardless, everyone has a right to their opinions.
    I have had experience with one. And it got am excess of carbon built up and choked itself out. Wasn't allowing enough gas through anymore and couldn't adjust it. Had to be disassembled and soaked to get it to free up.
    And if you aren't needing to actually adjust it and are just going to keep it in the "working setting", then don't get an adjustable. Get a standard, steel gas block, it will work for you and there's no
    A lot of ruffled feathers I see, but I agree 100% with Ltromann on all topics and opinions discussed in this thread.
    Thanks. Theres a handful of people who got triggered over my posts. It happens. There's lots of people on here who don't have a good spread of experience. I wasted a lot of money on junk and gimmicky parts starting off building ARs... it took a few years for me to learn, so figured I'd try and share my experiences best I can in hopes people don't waste their money.
    But people get defensive if you insult their garbage
     

    Creedmoor

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    A lot of ruffled feathers I see, but I agree 100% with Ltromann on all topics and opinions discussed in this thread. Gas systems are tuned with buffers and springs (namely sprinco), A5 system rules, don’t use adjustible gas blocks. And for the love of God don’t use anti-rotation pins. And stake your castle nuts.
    No ruffled feathers, laughter but no ruffled anything.
    Lots of ive seen or read about one that did this or that. Colt and FN have made millions of that platform, theres no one at the test fire that tunes buffers and springs.
    Its also interesting that I can buy Good uppers and lowers and take cans on and off without changing anything in the gas or buffer systems. Like posted here by others, this was worked out decades ago.
     

    ltromann

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    No ruffled feathers, laughter but no ruffled anything.
    Lots of ive seen or read about one that did this or that. Colt and FN have made millions of that platform, theres no one at the test fire that tunes buffers and springs.
    Its also interesting that I can buy Good uppers and lowers and take cans on and off without changing anything in the gas or buffer systems. Like posted here by others, this was worked out decades ago.
    I never said Colt of FN were bad manufacturers. Matter of fact they make very acceptable guns. Are they my preference? No, but they make guns that work.
    And I think you misunderstood throughout my posts thats what I was saying, you have a properly set up gun, well gassed, tight tolerances, correct recoil system for that gun, then you won't really have to change anything to fire it suppressed or unsuppressed. And it should run pretty reliably.
    Can you increase buffer weight? Absolutely, especially if you're only running the gun with the suppressor. But if you're constantly taking it on and off, finding a good middle ground where it functions with and without the suppressor is where you want to be.
    You don't need an adjustable gas block to run a supressor and typically, it will just lead to more issues if you've got the AGB on there. So in my opinion, they aren't worth it.
     

    Goodcat

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    No ruffled feathers, laughter but no ruffled anything.
    Lots of ive seen or read about one that did this or that. Colt and FN have made millions of that platform, theres no one at the test fire that tunes buffers and springs.
    Its also interesting that I can buy Good uppers and lowers and take cans on and off without changing anything in the gas or buffer systems. Like posted here by others, this was worked out decades ago.
    Oh, I don’t mean individual guns of the same make, gas port, parts, etc should be tuned. I’m talking about an assembled AR. For instance, my main squeeze is a LMT mars, 11.5” criterion core barrel converted for LMT, FCD A5 stock, Sprinco green, Sionics NP3 BCG with LMT e-bolt. Played with A5H2 through A5H4 buffers until my ejection pattern was where I wanted it with surplus, and hot 75gr, suppressed, or unsuppressed. I’ve had a 10.3” (which I don’t recommend), that I ended up with a carbine buffer tube on with an H buffer and fine tuned with different Sprinco power springs.
     

    Gingerbeardman

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    Ok, so what's an example where an adjustable gas block WOULD be required? I have a couple guesses:

    1) very lightweight bcg
    2) very custom load

    And, if you use the gas block to tune your gun for a situation where it's needed, once it's tuned, would it matter if it got carbon buildup and was no longer adjustable?

    These are honest questions for all parties involved, I'm just trying to get to the end of the AR-15 knowledge rainbow.
     

    Chalky

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    I have had experience with one. And it got an excess of carbon built up and choked itself out. Wasn't allowing enough gas through anymore and couldn't adjust it. Had to be disassembled and soaked to get it to free up.
    And if you aren't needing to actually adjust it and are just going to keep it in the "working setting", then don't get an adjustable. Get a standard, steel gas block, it will work for you and there's no extra parts to mess up
    Thanks for the info. Never experienced that or seen it, but guess it's possible. My point was that there are some cases where an adjustable gas block might be a good approach. 6.5 Grendels are known to be hard on bolts, especially extractors. Using the adjustable gas block helps that some vs tuning the buffer IMO. I bought a 223 wylde upper that was over gassed. I changed to a heavier buffer and was good. In that case, wouldn't switch to an adjustable. No feathers ruffled here, just different opinions which can be good to discuss.
     

    ltromann

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    Thanks for the info. Never experienced that or seen it, but guess it's possible. My point was that there are some cases where an adjustable gas block might be a good approach. 6.5 Grendels are known to be hard on bolts, especially extractors. Using the adjustable gas block helps that some vs tuning the buffer IMO. I bought a 223 wylde upper that was over gassed. I changed to a heavier buffer and was good. In that case, wouldn't switch to an adjustable. No feathers ruffled here, just different opinions which can be good to discuss.
    If something is over gassed or undergassed, the issue should be addressed to find out what's causing it to be that way. Oversized gas port, is there a leak and something is too small or big? How are the gas rings in the bcg, and is the bcg in spec, how about the gas key? Or is it a combination of multiple things.
    This is the point I'm trying to make, that an overgassed or undergassed issue shouldn't be patched with an adjustable gas block. The problem should be sources and the out of spec parts should be replaced. All of that is what tuning your gun means. Finding good parts that work well together to make a nicely gassed gun.
    An adjustable gas block is a temporary fix to a deeper issue.
    Just a discussion.
     

    ltromann

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    Ok, so what's an example where an adjustable gas block WOULD be required? I have a couple guesses:

    1) very lightweight bcg
    2) very custom load

    And, if you use the gas block to tune your gun for a situation where it's needed, once it's tuned, would it matter if it got carbon buildup and was no longer adjustable?

    These are honest questions for all parties involved, I'm just trying to get to the end of the AR-15 knowledge rainbow.
    In my opinion, it is not required. Pick a focus on what role you want your gun to play. The purpose that it serves, then buy the parts accordingly to make sure it's gassed correctly for the intended use. The adjustable is a bandaid to fix an issue elsewhere in the gun.
    I also don't think a lightweight BCG should be used in an AR. Thats the point where you want the most mass. You want the spot where explosions are taking place to be heavier and reinforced.
     

    Chalky

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    If something is over gassed or undergassed, the issue should be addressed to find out what's causing it to be that way. Oversized gas port, is there a leak and something is too small or big? How are the gas rings in the bcg, and is the bcg in spec, how about the gas key? Or is it a combination of multiple things.
    This is the point I'm trying to make, that an overgassed or undergassed issue shouldn't be patched with an adjustable gas block. The problem should be sources and the out of spec parts should be replaced. All of that is what tuning your gun means. Finding good parts that work well together to make a nicely gassed gun.
    An adjustable gas block is a temporary fix to a deeper issue.
    Just a discussion.
    Just a final point of clarification. An adjustable gas block does nothing for undergassed problems. By that I mean if your gun is undergassed, an adjutable gas block does nothing for you, it won't increase gas. They only address being overgassed or decreasing gas. Most of what you described would be undergassed issues. Overgassed issues are not going to be a stacking problem either. Usually overgassed is related to a larger gas port on the barrel. So unless you want to replace the barrel, an adjustable gas block is one way to adress it and I wouldn't say it's a temporary fix. Buffer tuning is another approach which I explained earlier my preferences (grendle adjustable gas block, 223/5.56 buffer). Agree, finding good parts that work together make a nice gun and no stacking issues. Easier to do it right the first time as well.
     

    ltromann

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    Just a final point of clarification. An adjustable gas block does nothing for undergassed problems. By that I mean if your gun is undergassed, an adjutable gas block does nothing for you, it won't increase gas. They only address being overgassed or decreasing gas. Most of what you described would be undergassed issues. Overgassed issues are not going to be a stacking problem either. Usually overgassed is related to a larger gas port on the barrel. So unless you want to replace the barrel, an adjustable gas block is one way to adress it and I wouldn't say it's a temporary fix. Buffer tuning is another approach which I explained earlier my preferences (grendle adjustable gas block, 223/5.56 buffer). Agree, finding good parts that work together make a nice gun and no stacking issues. Easier to do it right the first time as well.
    Overgassed yes primary issue would be the gas port. If identified, the manufacturer should be contacted and see if it can be swapped. This is why a cheap set of pin gauges is a good investment if you want to assemble ARs. The gas port should be checked prior to install.
    But yeah the buffer and recoil spring would address that and there's also gas tubes that can be used like the BRT EZtune gas tubes.
     

    ditcherman

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    Overgassed yes primary issue would be the gas port. If identified, the manufacturer should be contacted and see if it can be swapped. This is why a cheap set of pin gauges is a good investment if you want to assemble ARs. The gas port should be checked prior to install.
    But yeah the buffer and recoil spring would address that and there's also gas tubes that can be used like the BRT EZtune gas tubes.
    So is there an absolute known standard for a gas port size that should be checked for? Wouldn’t that port size be dependent on BCG, buffer weight and general build, all end user spec’d, not to mention carbine vs mid vs rifle length.
    It just seems to me that choosing a specific barrel for all its attributes and then asking to swap it out for a specific gas port size would be impractical.
     

    ltromann

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    So is there an absolute known standard for a gas port size that should be checked for? Wouldn’t that port size be dependent on BCG, buffer weight and general build, all end user spec’d, not to mention carbine vs mid vs rifle length.
    It just seems to me that choosing a specific barrel for all its attributes and then asking to swap it out for a specific gas port size would be impractical.
    There is some pretty set standard size ranges for different length barrels. A gun should be built around a barrel. choose which barrel length you want and what purpose you want the gun for. So, your BCG buffer weight doesnt determine what your port size should be, the port size and your barrel determines what the other parts should be.
    Base your other parts off of that information.
     
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