Will the People of Catalonia Have Their Say on Secession?

[Kirk Freeman]

Kirk must be a politician because he sure does a lot bloviating.

I'll wait here while you detail the incorrect statements that I have made about Catalonia.

 

[poptab]

Kirks righteous indignation is pure and wholesome but libertarians righteous indignation is invalid.

All hail Kirk protector of freedom.

 

[Henry]

The Tenth Amendment. South Carolina exercised it in 1832.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Kirks righteous indignation is pure and wholesome but libertarians righteous indignation is invalid.

Because they don't know anything.

They haven't studied and only have the ideas that the other worms in the glass jar give them. Why do you think they run from questions and debate?

All hail Kirk protector of freedom.

Some days, yes.

Still waiting for what I have said about Catalonia that is incorrect.

I know L. Neil and Ayn are cool and all, but the real world isn't some silly escapist cartoonish novel.

The forces driving Catalonia secession were vile. All of Spain benefits by its death.

 

[Henry]

Already have you down as a "no" for secession and nullification.
Shall I put you down as a "no" for a limited central government as well?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

The Tenth Amendment as exercised by by South Carolina in 1832.

What? What does a tariff in the USA have to do with Catalonia?

Tenth Amendment? I don't understand. What is your point in stating this?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Shall I put you down as a "no" for a limited central government as well?

Under the Spanish Constitution of 1978? The Constitution of 1978 (while not explicitly) lays out a federalized system of government.

Do you want me to go over the Constitution of 1978 and why this referendum is illegal?

 

[poptab]

Please Kirk tell us how it really is. I'd love to know.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Please Kirk tell us how it really is. I'd love to know.

If you don't want me to teach you and insist on importing your ideas into another's business, as all Libertarians do, then by all means, I will not lecture on Spanish politics tonight.

BTW, whatever happened to the Libertarian ideal of not interfering with the business of another country? Hmmm. So many questions.

 

[Henry]

You are the one that asked for a reference to nullification in the united States Constitution (and federalist papers etc). The Tenth was used successfully by South Carolina to challenge the tariff acts of 1828 and 1832 leading to their revision with the Tariff act of 1833.

Asked and answered.

 

[Henry]

Back to the topic of the thread....

Given the people of Catalonia are so "vile", I wonder why the government of Spain wants so badly for the people of Spain to be afflicted by forced association with such "vile" people.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

The Tenth was used successfully by South Carolina to challenge the tariff acts of 1828 and 1832 leading to their revision with the Tariff act of 1833.

Absolutely delusional. Who is telling you this? Was this in an L. Neil Smith novel which I have forgotten? Pallas maybe?

I just don't know what to say other than ask who is teaching you this? Is this something you are repeating from a Libertarian website? Was it a Libertarian politician?

Here is the ordinance of 1832; there is no reference to the Tenth Amendment. There was no court challenge so it was not successfully challenged. There was a political resolution before Andy Jackson would hang the government of South Carolina which was likely for the best.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/ordnull.asp

 

[Slawburger]

When I woke up this morning the topic of Catalonian Secession was nowhere on my radar. Now we are on page 4 of the topic. INGO never disappoints.

Note: That was actually sincere, no purple intended.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Given the people of Catalonia are so "vile", I wonder why the government of Spain wants so badly for the people of Spain to be afflicted by forced association with such "vile" people.

1. The government of Catalonia is vile and corrupt.

2. The government of Spain is enforcing the Constitution.

 

[Henry]

Absolutely delusional. Who is telling you this? Was this in an L. Neil Smith novel which I have forgotten? Pallas maybe?


I just don't know what to say other than ask who is teaching you this? Is this something you are repeating from a Libertarian website? Was it a Libertarian politician?


Here is the ordinance of 1832; there is no reference to the Tenth Amendment. There was no court challenge so it was not successfully challenged. There was a political resolution before Andy Jackson would hang the government of South Carolina which was likely for the best.


http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/ordnull.asp

Not all matters are settled in a court as illustrated by South Carolina's nullification of the Tariff Acts of 1828 and 1832 which resulted in the "compromise" reached in the 1833 Act. Nullification resulted in a change of the law.

Feel free to open another thread on the matter. This thread is about Catalonia.

 

[Henry]

Dupe

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Alright, here's what will happen next:

1. written and oral arguments in the SCC

2. As the SCC often takes ruling under advisement for a very long time, it is unknown when the SCC will issue a ruling.

Under Spain's current conservative ruling party, it is unlikely that there will be a nationwide vote to allow Catalonia to seek independence.

There will likely be a move to make politicial concessions to Catalonia, a la Scotland, but the current scandals in Catalonia cast doubt on this anytime soon. Likely the scandals will have to cool before this is permissible, especially under the current Spanish government.

 

[Henry]

1. The government of Catalonia is vile and corrupt.

2. The government of Spain is enforcing the Constitution.

Seems I have heard that before.

1. The government of Kurdistan is vile and corrupt.

2. The government of Iraq is enforcing the Constitution.

 

[88GT]

The question remains what? Moot?

Look, the bloviating, corrupt rats that run Catalonia blamed the problems that they caused on Spain and thought that the people of Catalonia, who they loathe, would follow them with this stupid con job of independence that they tried to run.

It was a political act of desperation. If Catalonia wants to be free (I doubt it, they love their treats there), they will vote out the rats, reject the treats from Madrid and go to school instead of sitting around in bars *****ing about how everyone owes them.

coming from anyone else, I might be surprised at the choice of stringing those words together in that order.

Of course the Spanish court says no, but Spain stands to lose tax base. Why don't the Catalonians get to have a say? They have their own language and everything. Sure, they'd be a wee little state, but not as wee as Andorra or Luxembourg, plus they have coastline, so they'd be rockin it. What if they just declare their independence, does Spain invade and occupy them? Might be worth finding out. Would the US occupy Indiana if we decided they'd broken the contract and told them to f-off? A lot of us might take exception to that. Why do you hate liberty?

I'm pretty sure the British Parliament said "no" to our 1776 declaration as well.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Seems I have heard that before.

1. The government of Kurdistan is vile and corrupt.

2. The government of Iraq is enforcing the Constitution.

Now we are in Iraq. And away we go.

Ok, what is vile and corrupt about the government of Kurdistan?

What is the government of Iraq, which may not be long for this planet, doing to Kurdistan?

coming from anyone else, I might be surprised at the choice of stringing those words together in that order.

What else would you call Pujol other than a con man?

Griftio de la Grifta del Griftiando?