Woman accidentally shot in Police training

[Twangbanger]

Shooting sim rounds at civilian civics class volunteers is going to be a tough one to get past the "reasonable administrator sniff-test." I'm betting the fallout climbs well above the level of the officer involved, and I can envision all such activities getting canceled, pronto.

Sure would be nice to get more details though. Was this a conversion unit, or can dedicated pistols fire real rounds with sufficient force to kill someone? I really don't understand.

 

[mrjarrell]

Looks like the officer who killed this woman is not just a crap magnet, but has a history as a loose canon and is a gypsy. I pity the department that backs him up.

https://photographyisnotacrime.com/2016/08/10/punta-gorda-cop-killed-woman-long-history-abuse/

 

[chezuki]

Looks like the officer who killed this woman is not just a crap magnet, but has a history as a loose canon and is a gypsy. I pity the department that backs him up.

https://photographyisnotacrime.com/2016/08/10/punta-gorda-cop-killed-woman-long-history-abuse/

That seems like a fair and unbiased site...

 

[HoughMade]

Does that mean they are mutually exclusive??

Accidents and murder are generally mutually exclusive.

Accidents and negligence are not and often live side-by-side.

Looks like the officer who killed this woman is not just a crap magnet, but has a history as a loose canon and is a gypsy. I pity the department that backs him up...

I just thank God that we have a plaintiff's lawyer with a pending lawsuit to give us an objective analysis of the matter.

 

[foszoe]

Accidents and murder are generally mutually exclusive.

Accidents and negligence are not and often live side-by-side.

I am getting this law thing down!

 

[Jackson]

Shooting sim rounds at civilian civics class volunteers is going to be a tough one to get past the "reasonable administrator sniff-test." I'm betting the fallout climbs well above the level of the officer involved, and I can envision all such activities getting canceled, pronto.

Sure would be nice to get more details though. Was this a conversion unit, or can dedicated pistols fire real rounds with sufficient force to kill someone? I really don't understand.

It depends entirely on what product they are using. There are some training rounds designed to be fired from regular pistols. Code Eagle marking ammo can be fired from a regular .38 cal revolver. UTM conversions have offset firing pins and will not fire standard ammunition.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Accidents and murder are generally mutually exclusive.

They can touch at Reckless Homicide (sometimes).

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Sims, UTM, and AirSoft replicas and scenario Force on Force is the (relatively) new hotness in the training world. Some would say it provides many training benefits that can't be had on the "square range", but definitely involves pointing guns, or gun shaped objects at people. Would you say this kind of training is a bad idea? Too dangerous to be of use?

We are going to be very honest about the gun culture now.

1. You bet Force on Force training is valuable. Without question.

2. Force on Force training draws Mall Ninjas and Poggie McStumblef**ks like honey draws flies.

3. Force on Force is offered and done by FAR too many that have not mastered the basics such as . . . designing a gd protocol that prevents innocents from being shot or knowing that all guns are always loaded and think that being blase about gun safety is hip and cool.

4. The bigger threat to me and to you is me and you. The person in the mirror is your biggest threat, drill to defeat that person.

5. Once you have mastered gun handling, then it is time to crawl, walk, jog, run, then jog, then run again.

FAR too many people are doing Force on Force that have no business being on a square range without a handler.

 

[cedartop]

It depends entirely on what product they are using. There are some training rounds designed to be fired from regular pistols. Code Eagle marking ammo can be fired from a regular .38 cal revolver. UTM conversions have offset firing pins and will not fire standard ammunition.

Does it actually say in any of the articles that Sims guns were being used? I must be missing that.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Does it actually say in any of the articles that Sims guns were being used? I must be missing that.

What you did not miss is the way of thinking that leads to a safe training environment, and not just in equipment handling. While I gained much from your class a few months back, it stands out to me that you understood that I didn't feel up to roughhousing and applied no expectations or pressure to do so. While I thought I was simply not feeling well, it wasn't long after that I landed in the hospital with congestive heart failure. Had there been someone pressuring me into more participation than was comfortable that day, my hospital visit may well have been moved up a bit. Thanks for teaching that class in a way conducive to my well-being!

 

[Jackson]

Does it actually say in any of the articles that Sims guns were being used? I must be missing that.

No. It wasn't explicitly stated. It said role play a use of force scenario. Mistaking your real blaster for your marking blaster is the fist thought that comes to mind. It could be something else entirely.

 

[cedartop]

What you did not miss is the way of thinking that leads to a safe training environment, and not just in equipment handling. While I gained much from your class a few months back, it stands out to me that you understood that I didn't feel up to roughhousing and applied no expectations or pressure to do so. While I thought I was simply not feeling well, it wasn't long after that I landed in the hospital with congestive heart failure. Had there been someone pressuring me into more participation than was comfortable that day, my hospital visit may well have been moved up a bit. Thanks for teaching that class in a way conducive to my well-being!

Wow! Sorry to hear about the health issues. I hope that things are working out for you. Thank you for letting me know we did right by you. Ultimately the safety of our students is the prime directive. That is why incidents like the one we are discussing here are important to dissect correctly.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Wow! Sorry to hear about the health issues. I hope that things are working out for you. Thank you for letting me know we did right by you. Ultimately the safety of our students is the prime directive. That is why incidents like the one we are discussing here are important to dissect correctly.

Thanks for a great class. I started to write a PM, but changed my mind since I believe that when you do things right, everyone should know.

 

[drillsgt]

Does it actually say in any of the articles that Sims guns were being used? I must be missing that.

I read one response on social media that it was supposed to be blanks but I have no hard evidence of that. I was skeptical that they were going to pull some random old lady out of the crowd and shoot her with simunitions.

 

[Spear Dane]

I read one response on social media that it was supposed to be blanks but I have no hard evidence of that. I was skeptical that they were going to pull some random old lady out of the crowd and shoot her with simunitions.

Yeah what I read was that it was supposed to be blanks and the police were totally unaware that live rounds existed for the weapon in question. I almost wonder if someone didn't plan this to happen and put a live round in it.

 

[techres]

We are going to be very honest about the gun culture now.
2. Force on Force training draws Mall Ninjas and Poggie McStumblef**ks like honey draws flies.

Lols...

The shirt's inspired:

 

[SSGSAD]

BTW, in the off chance that anyone cares, this is why we don't point guns are people that don't need to be shot. Because all guns are always loaded.

AND, KNOW your TARGET, and what is behind it !!!!!

 

[HoughMade]

They can touch at Reckless Homicide (sometimes).

Don't pretend you didn't see the qualifier: "generally".

 

[rhino]

We are going to be very honest about the gun culture now.

1. You bet Force on Force training is valuable. Without question.

2. Force on Force training draws Mall Ninjas and Poggie McStumblef**ks like honey draws flies.

3. Force on Force is offered and done by FAR too many that have not mastered the basics such as . . . designing a gd protocol that prevents innocents from being shot or knowing that all guns are always loaded and think that being blase about gun safety is hip and cool.

4. The bigger threat to me and to you is me and you. The person in the mirror is your biggest threat, drill to defeat that person.

5. Once you have mastered gun handling, then it is time to crawl, walk, jog, run, then jog, then run again.

FAR too many people are doing Force on Force that have no business being on a square range without a handler.

And yet some people think it's a great idea to immerse newbs in force on force training with simunition or some other marking training pistols. For the reasons you mentioned above, I think it's a horribly bad idea.

I read one response on social media that it was supposed to be blanks but I have no hard evidence of that. I was skeptical that they were going to pull some random old lady out of the crowd and shoot her with simunitions.

Blanks? If that's true, it's potentially even more stupid. People (Jon Erik Hexum, Brandon Lee) have died when blanks discharged too close to them. And then there's the having functional weapons, whether loaded with blanks of not, available. UGH.

 

[T.Lex]

I wonder what she was doing.