Woman and daughters lose lives due to slow LE response

[88GT]

Woman and daughters lose lives; some blame slow LE response

Bank manager says she called police after Connecticut mom Jennifer Hawke-Petit said her family was being held captive - NYPOST.com

And more here, with a bit more detail: CCTV of Jennifer Hawke-Petit pleading with bank as family held hostage seen by jury | Mail Online

This isn't a bash on LEs. But rather a lamentation of the fact that we have abdicated our responsibilities with regards to our own self-protection and simultaneously given the state far too much power over the same.

I'd say ultimately what killed this woman and her daughters--aside from the men who are directly responsible--is the idea that the police are there to protect us and intervene.

I posted this in here because I have to wonder if it had happened in one of our homes, with our capability and willingness to respond to violence with force, how it might have turned out differently.

Edited title; I didn't want to imply their lives absolutely could have been saved.

Edit 2: okay, it won't let me change the main title. Well, crapola.

 

[jbombelli]

Very sad story.

Just goes to show, we can't rely on the police to protect us.

I first started carrying at home when I read a news article about a young family whose home was invaded by multiple assailants, while they were home. Their infant child (or toddler, don't remember which) was thrown against the wall. I swore at that moment that this would never happen to my family.

I can tell you how it would work out differently at *my* house. I'll kill any and all MF'ers coming through my door without permission, immediately.

As an aside, I wonder if they even owned any guns.

 

[millsusaf]

It's a tragic story that should have never happened. I hope the scum that did that to them get everything that is coming to them and more!

 

[Joe Williams]

It's not the responsibility of the police to protect us, it's our responsibility. The police cannot protect us unless they are with us 24/7, and even then they may not always be able to do so.

This is why laws and private business policies that disarm citizens are so grossly negligent, and particularly disgusting to me.

 

[E5RANGER375]

criminals like that deserve gasoline and a match. not a trial. They were caught in the act.

 

[O2guy]

These scum deserve the death penalty in front of the country, on the main street media if we do not as a nation uphold the dealth penalty ( and let the father /husband have the honors we as a country might as not even have one..that is a sad state of affairs..IMO

 

[hi-pointfan1]

JC! That was a horrible story to read. Tears swelled in my eyes. How could such evil even exist, and I'm sure there are hundreds of stories out there. And to think, I was putting off buying a shotgun for home defense. I am now going to buy a gun for every room in my house and will remember this story if, god forbid, someone were to break into my house. I was even considering leading my live rounds with non-lethal ammunition. God I feel so naive, double 00 buck and hollow points from now on to save the jury, courts and tax payers some trouble!

 

[hi-pointfan1]

JC! That was a horrible story to read. Tears swelled in my eyes. How could such evil even exist, and I'm sure there are hundreds of stories out there. And to think, I was putting off buying a shotgun for home defense. I am now going to buy a gun for every room in my house and will remember this story if, god forbid, someone were to break into my house. I was even considering leading my live rounds with non-lethal ammunition. God I feel so naive, double 00 buck and hollow points from now on to save the jury, courts and tax payers some trouble!

 

[IndySSD]

JC! That was a horrible story to read. Tears swelled in my eyes. How could such evil even exist, and I'm sure there are hundreds of stories out there. And to think, I was putting off buying a shotgun for home defense. I am now going to buy a gun for every room in my house and will remember this story if, god forbid, someone were to break into my house. I was even considering leading my live rounds with non-lethal ammunition. God I feel so naive, double 00 buck and hollow points from now on to save the jury, courts and tax payers some trouble!

Wait, aren't you the same one who is condemning us "Monday Morning Home Protectors" who state they would terminate home invasion artists on sight in the "Get out of my house" thread?

Sounds more like you've never had any personal experience with violent crime and I would suggest you think long and hard about how you would feel if this were YOUR FAMILY and house and exactly what lengths you're willing to go to make sure that your loved ones are safe.

 

[PatriotPride]

criminals like that deserve gasoline and a match. not a trial. They were caught in the act.

Have you seen the price of gas lately? I say bare hands. Slowly. Without mercy.

 

[lwilli]

After this story aired last evening, they had an expert in hostage negotiation give his advice on what we should do if we should ever find ourselves in this situation. I was amazed when he said we should treat the invaders like royalty, and should never try to escape...give me a break! How many of you would treat your home invaders like royalty? Would you like some tea and cookies before you rape and murder my family?

My advice would be to fight with every ounce of strength as though your life depended upon it...because it does. Also, there are families who practice what to do in case of a fire (and rightly so). In addition, (and it's sad to even suggest) that we should all practice with our families what to do if someone tries to kick in our door, or succeeds in breaking in your home in the middle of the night. I believe preparation is key.

 

[E5RANGER375]

After this story aired last evening, they had an expert in hostage negotiation give his advice on what we should do if we should ever find ourselves in this situation. I was amazed when he said we should treat the invaders like royalty, and should never try to escape...give me a break! How many of you would treat your home invaders like royalty? Would you like some tea and cookies before you rape and murder my family?

My advice would be to fight with every ounce of strength as though your life depended upon it...because it does. Also, there are families who practice what to do in case of a fire (and rightly so). In addition, (and it's sad to even suggest) that we should all practice with our families what to do if someone tries to kick in our door, or succeeds in breaking in your home in the middle of the night. I believe preparation is key.

i will treat them like czar niccolas of russia

 

[ATF Consumer]

I got really upset when I heard the bank manager was on the phone with 911 while she was still inside getting the money while the criminal was outside in a vehicle. You'd thought the police could have reached their home before all of the tragic events occurred. Very sad.
I believe resistance is the best option in most cases.

 

[88GT]

I got really upset when I heard the bank manager was on the phone with 911 while she was still inside getting the money while the criminal was outside in a vehicle. You'd thought the police could have reached their home before all of the tragic events occurred. Very sad.
I believe resistance is the best option in most cases.

At the risk of coming across like I'm bashing all LE in general, I think that's one of the big questions surrounding the LEO response. It just doesn't sit right that a crime of that nature in progress gets treated like a surveillance assignment for the mundane purpose of information gathering.

 

[DemolitionMan]

There was a time in the military when I was asked if I would consider sniper training. I thought about it for a long time and decided that I wasn't sure that I could pull the trigger on a man in cold blood. Someone shooting at me, or about to shoot? No problem. But to look at a man through a scope and take his life when he doesn't even know you're there? I just wasn't sure I could do it.

This is entirely different though. Pulling the trigger on these two would be no problem at all. These are not people, they are less than animals and need to be put down for the safety of the community.

I can only hope that (god forbid) something like this ever happened to me that I would be ready and could react in time to defend my family. I like to think that I would, but there are more times than I'd like to admit that I have been dozing on the couch like the poor guy in this story.

The sad thing is that we even have to think that we might not be safe enough in our own homes to take a nap...

 

[j706]

As tragic as this case is you can't blame the police. It would be some untrained irresponsible officers that would go rushing up to a house like that. It sounds to be like they were doing the reasonable thing and attempting to gain intelligence on the incident. Like it or not that is just the way it is. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. The same people blaming the police are usually the same ones that are whining about a police car going to fast.

This incident went down fast. 45 minutes is not much time to gain knowledge about what might or might not be going down.

Also recall LE has no duty to protect you.

 

[IDCC]

I remember this story. The POS thugs gained access to the house via a unlocked door.

 

[88GT]

As tragic as this case is you can't blame the police. It would be some untrained irresponsible officers that would go rushing up to a house like that. It sounds to be like they were doing the reasonable thing and attempting to gain intelligence on the incident. Like it or not that is just the way it is. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. The same people blaming the police are usually the same ones that are whining about a police car going to fast.

This incident went down fast. 45 minutes is not much time to gain knowledge about what might or might not be going down.

Also recall LE has no duty to protect you.

Sure. We all know you're just there to clean up the blood, fill out the paperwork, and make life a living hell for the innocents.

Your bias is obvious. And that's the second response I've read this morning that implied police authority and powers supersede the rights of the citizen.

 

[baldguy637]

This reminds me of a situation my wife and i ran into three years ago this Feb. When i met my wife, she was scared of guns. She never understood why i always carry a gun in the console of my truck. She is a stay at home mom and is home 75% of the time.

I was off work one day, and we decided to run to indy to get a closet organizer. When we returned home, we saw our front door was kicked in. I told her to stay in the truck, and call 911 as i grabbed my beretta 96 out of the console and headed into the house. After i cleared the house (it was trashed, everything had been went through and tossed to the side) i went back out to my wife.

She informed me that the dispatch operator had told her that we should go to the neighbors driveway and wait for the police to show up and let the leo clear the house. We waited for an hour before a deputy showed up. Their were only two officers on duty that morning and both were tied up on a wreck on the other side of the county.

I dont blame the PD, but this is why i always have a gun in the truck. And although my wife still doesn't like guns, she has learned to shoot and understands the need to have them. It shook her up pretty well thinking of all the what if's and what would have happened had she had been home at the time.

 

[ATF Consumer]

Sure. We all know you're just there to clean up the blood, fill out the paperwork, and make life a living hell for the innocents.

Your bias is obvious. And that's the second response I've read this morning that implied police authority and powers supersede the rights of the citizen.

Not only that, this was a 911 call, not a missing persons report. Aren't these calls supposed to be reacted to immediately? I would think 45 mins would have been ample time to at least send a unit out to check it out...
The perps not only had time to get the money from the bank during the 911 call...they then drove back to the house, raped and killed, then set the house on fire...all the while the police were gathering intelligence? One would have thought the best place to gather intelligence would be at the home where it was taking place.