Working up a .38 spl load, having issues

[lowendgenerator]

I'm using Berry's 125gr Flat Point bullets (.357) and a 4" revolver. I started with 4.4 grains of Unique with an OAL of 1.45 inches. According to Lyman's 48th, a 120gr lead projectile should take anywhere from 4 to 5.7 gr. I figured 10% over minimum was a good place to start.

Took my gun to the range today, and it was awful. The rounds were of inconsistent power, the first shot actually had me thinking I squibbed one. The accuracy was non-existent, and half the rounds that I did manage to get on paper were keyholing. When I checked the barrel, it was filthy. Looks like I wasn't getting a complete burn.

I know that one of the symptoms of under-powering a load is keyholing, but what about the accuracy?

 

[SSGSAD]

My "old reliable", Speer #10, shows a 125 gr. sp, or hp bullet, with 5.3 - 5.9 gr. of Unique. Speer, #12 shows 5.7 gr of Unique... I use 4.6 Unique, for LIGHT loads, and 5.9 gr. Unique for "HEAVY" loads, BUT I use a .357 Mag. revolver ..... I have good consistent results..... (for me anyway ).

 

[Leo]

I bought 500 of the 125 gr Berry bullets. I could not get the desired level of accuracy out of them either. I trued light, medium and heavy loads. I tried fast powder, slow powder. I tried them in .38 and .357. The only thing I didn't try them in was a rifle. I had also tried some 105 grain cast bullets in the .38 with the same frustration. The 158 grain Berry bullets shot great. 125 gr soft point or hollow point jacketed bullets shoot fine in my .357.

My recomendation....stick with 148 wadcutters or 158 grain bullets in the .38 unless you are shooting jacketed bullets.

 

[lowendgenerator]

My "old reliable", Speer #10, shows a 125 gr. sp, or hp bullet, with 5.3 - 5.9 gr. of Unique. Speer, #12 shows 5.7 gr of Unique... I use 4.6 Unique, for LIGHT loads, and 5.9 gr. Unique for "HEAVY" loads, BUT I use a .357 Mag. revolver ..... I have good consistent results..... (for me anyway ).

I made a few more mini-batches today, starting at 4.6, 4.8, 5.0, 5.2 and 5.4 grains. Gonna hit the range again tomorrow and see how it goes. Taking a box of factory ammo with me too, as a scientific control.

 

[SSGSAD]

I made a few more mini-batches today, starting at 4.6, 4.8, 5.0, 5.2 and 5.4 grains. Gonna hit the range again tomorrow and see how it goes. Taking a box of factory ammo with me too, as a scientific control.

Let us know, how it goes .....

 

[mssmith44]

Another part of the loading process that can cause tumbling and inaccuracy is the crimp on the bullet. The sizing die can be an issue with not sizing the case small enough for a good tension on the bullet. Try a minimal crimp if any at all to see if that makes a difference. Faster powder is better for low end loads.

 

[lowendgenerator]

Another part of the loading process that can cause tumbling and inaccuracy is the crimp on the bullet. The sizing die can be an issue with not sizing the case small enough for a good tension on the bullet. Try a minimal crimp if any at all to see if that makes a difference. Faster powder is better for low end loads.

This conflicts what I've been told by others. It was suggested that since I was seeing unburnt powder in the barrel, that I didn't have enough crimp on the bullet, therefore not getting enough pressure built up.

My crimp before was minimal. I used my cylinder as a gauge and only applied enough crimp (via Lee factory crimp die) to make the cartridge drop in smoothly.

Off to the range we go!

 

[mssmith44]

The problem that I actually had with the crimping process early on was with a 357 revolver and a long round nose bullet. I was using a taper crimp which is probably what you should use on the Berry's. But I did see and hear the bullets tumbling with too much crimp. I was using taper crimping exclusively until recently when I found I could reload quicker with a roll crimp into a crimping groove on the bullet. I switched to the Lee factory crimp die for this and I didn't see any change in accuracy.

 

[geronimojoe85]

For 38/357 I always stick with 158gr lead, it just works for me.
I found that with 38s I'll use a magnum primer (CCI). They usually burn a little cleaner with unique in the same loadings.

 

[Water63]

I have been gravitating away from the older powders I am starting to really like Clays and Titegroup They are just cleaner and more consistent than the Unique and bullseye powders. If you have a good lead load the berrys should run great with that essentially you are just running lead with a thin coat of plating over them.
Post up your results.

 

[lowendgenerator]

AAR: Good news! It's definitely NOT the gun. I shot 50 cartridges of 158gr FMJ FN Magtechs, and they flew straight and true.

(upper right target was at 35 feet, the rest were 21ft. All factory loads)

I think I have it narrowed down to the weight of the bullet, and the slow burning powder working in conjunction. Even at 5.4gr and a hefty crimp, the Berry's/Unique combination was inconsistent in power, and even keyholed a few. The accuracy was better with the Magtech rounds, but only slightly.

So at the very least, I don't think Unique is going to give me the burn I need for these light bullets. Any suggestions on a different powder that will also work well with a heavier, 158gr bullet?

Final thoughts for the day. I broke my own cardinal rule, twice. I rushed my loads just to have something to shoot through the new gun, and I didn't put some factory lead through it first to know what it's capable of. Lesson learned.

 

[Cat-Herder]

. Any suggestions on a different powder that will also work well with a heavier, 158gr bullet?

Titegroup.

 

[Water63]

Titegroup or Winchester 231

 

[redneckmedic]

I use H110 15.0gr in a 357mag 158gr xtp hornady deer load, it killed a doe last week, shoots great

 

[T4rdV4rk]

Could you post a picture of your round? That might help us. Those Berry's aren't cannelured are they? I believe that a taper crimp should be used if they do not have a crimp groove.

I've not used Unique but I do have good results with W231 and Titegroup in my .357. I can give you a load and even send a couple sample rounds your way if you like.

 

[Leo]

The berry's have no grooves on the 125 gr bullets. They are flat pointed cone nosed design. Their barrel contact bearing area is less than bore diameter which I theorize has a negative effect on stability. I would like to find out if anyone has gotten them to shoot as well as the 148/158 gr flavors of bullets.

 

[nucone]

My most accurate 38 special load is:
MBC 125gr TCFP with light crimp
5.4 gr Unique
COL = 1.455"
Federal small pistol primer
Avg velocity from 4" barrel is 966 fps

My starting load was with 4.4 gr of Unique but it just wasn't accurate at all with a velocity of 702 fps.

 

[gunbunnies]

As far as powders...

Win 231 for 38 spcl

and

Accurate #9 for the magnums...

a finer powder than the Unique has will meter better more consistant for beter accuracy from your loads in my opinion... also the more full the case is the better they will fly...

 

[kludge]

The biggest problem I see is not starting at the start load. You don't just take a load, subtitute a different (especially heavier!) bullet and then say, "oh, I'll start 10% higher."

Also, in many cases 10% higher will put you at the maximum load. If the data is for 125gr bullets and you substitute 120gr bullets, that will generally be safe, but not the other way around.

Second. Get rid of the the Unique. It sucks. Really it does. Powder technology has come a long way in the last 100 years. The "new cleaner burning" stuff is still dirty.

Use No.2 for light loads, HP-38/W231 for regular loads. Universal works too.

 

[Leo]

If this will help anyone, I finally got a good group out of the 125 gr Berry's bullets, but not in .38. I loaded some in the .357 magnum over 12.5 gr AA#9. I sparked it with Winchester Magnum primers. The book said 1390 fps, I didn't chrono them. It has a real snappy recoil and is plenty loud and a little smoky, but 20 shots went into just over 2 inches at 50 feet. That is 1/2 the size of the best group I ever got in the .38. Those little bugers need full throttle to fly right. I'll probably not be buying more.