Young Maggie's highly unusual first solo flight.

[cbhausen]

What parts on a GA aircraft require magnaflux or zyglo at annual?

 

[Ggreen]

Hard to imagine anyone hiding a crack with paint, especially when it’s part of the landing gear. Do people think this stuff fixes itself?

I've literally seen it. It's actually on my personal prebuy to check for "globbed and running" paint on lndg gear, because that's what they do. Last one I saw it on was a Cherokee, and it was done after someone welded the knuckle back together (big no no) to cover the weld. It's a cast part and welding is about as effective as a gluistic. I reported it and left that job. Before that I saw it on a beautiful 310 a man brought in, well beautiful paint job that covered the cracks. Cracks were found after the aircraft bellied in when the landing gear jammed stowed, again non certified shady maintenance. I've seen a lot of stuff on experimentals that just make you go, wow. A lot of "engineers and jaga mechanics" go to a lot of work to do things poorly. I do love ex though and seriously push it to the guys who like to "do it themselves."

 

[Flyguyxii]

.

 

[actaeon277]

Hard to imagine anyone hiding a crack with paint, especially when it’s part of the landing gear. Do people think this stuff fixes itself?

Many people don't think.
I've seen used fire extinguishers stuck back in the holder at the mill.
Fire extinguisher get used a LOT in the mill. So, it's not that it might never get used, it WILL. And yet some dummy doesn't think that far ahead.

 

[Ggreen]

What parts on a GA aircraft require magnaflux or zyglo at annual?

none unless there is some sort of ad.

 

[Flyguyxii]

What parts on a GA aircraft require magnaflux or zyglo at annual?

Engine mounts and gear trunions just to name to name a couple just depends on the aircraft and what the manufacture or AD's have required.

 

[cbhausen]

Makes sense, thanks.

 

[flightsimmer]

I should have never clicked on this topic to begin with because it has brought up old memory's that I had long ago dealt with and the rage that I felt then is now back again.

To start with, the guys (A&P mechanics) at my local base airport and the manager knew me and my work. We enjoyed each others company and I would help them and they would help me, well, except for one guy that didn't seem to fit in, he was OK, but that's another story.

Anyway, if I did anything on an aircraft, they would check it over and question me about what ever procedure I had done and if they were satisfied with it, they would OK it. I even repaired some of their equipment around the hanger that they didn't have time to get to. I just loved working around and on aircraft. The largest aircraft I ever worked on was a Boeing 737, it was minor work although is there ever anything minor on an aircraft?

They were the ones that wondered why I wanted to get my A&P license because I was making a lot more money as heavy equipment
technician (fancy name for a dirty job) but that is where my interest lay.
Anyway, the FBO got bought out and they fired everyone, that sucked big time.

So I got the opportunity to go to a well known university to work for my A&P license and that went well until one day in class the instructor was telling us about how to trouble shoot an electrical panel in the Boeing 737 and I remarked that as a mechanic we were not allowed to service that kind of equipment and that if we found a problem with it we could not fix it, it would have to be sent to a certified repair station, and after a long pause he said "your right".

That reminded me of all the things I had to learn as a student pilot that were no longer applicable since WW-2, remember those RMC's or was it RMI's so that was my last semester as a student, I quit.

Now, about the wheel falling off of the students plane, who forgot the cotter pin? That's my best guest as to what happened because the axle looks like it's still there. Sign-off or no, that shouldn't have happened period and I'm sure the courts will handle that, I'm glad she is safe.

One of the aircraft that I purchased had just had a (fresh annual) and was signed off by someone I didn't know but hey I don't know them all.

Anyway I noticed that the engine was slow to crank for start-up and the guy said it had been sitting for a while so he started it and we did a test flight. Everything seemed to be in good working order, it handled well as it should so we made the deal.
But when I started it to fly it home I noticed it still cranked slow but it fired right up and was charging so I flew it home to my local FBO. I landed late so the next day I check it again and it still cranked slow. OK, maybe a bad battery,no big deal, right! right! On close examination I find a 24v starter on a 12v aircraft. So, a new starter and a new battery, it did have a 12v generator.

Then that night I notice that some of the bulbs are dim and the landing light don't work and the beacon didn't look right so guess what? 24v bulbs, not all, but some were so I had to go through the whole plane and check all of the electrical systems. I put in a new expensive landing lamp and turned it on only to have it blow up and shatter. I sent it back to GE for a refund and after they concluded that it was not my fault, they sent me two new ones. After that it was OK.

The engine used some oil but I didn't think it was serious.
Another plane that I ferried up from Mississippi started out full and when I got here it was almost empty of 6gts.
Anyway, my engine was later determined that it was excessive oil consumption so the engine was removed and sent to a rebuild facility for a complete overhaul, it had timed out anyway. NOW! I made a mistake when I said ZERO TIME engine rebuild, I should have said "major
overhaul", sorry bout that.

Anyway that's when the s**t hit the fan. When I finally got it back which was way to long I noticed that there was a lot of oil in the exhaust manifold, you would expect it to be dry, they said it wasn't fully broken in yet so no concern, YET. So hours went by and I took a few long trips as they suggested but still pumping oil like it did before I sent it in, HMMMMM.
Then I get this letter from the local FAA, YES! I DID GET A LETTER FROM THE FAA. They wanted me to call and set up an appointment for them to inspect the engine so I did. They came out and looked it over and pulled the airworthiness certificate and explained that they had information that the engine had not been overhauled, only cleaned and repainted. That explained the oil consumption, and this was from a recommended, supposedly reputable company.

LAWYER! Yes, I contacted the Indiana Bar Association referral service and they recommended a lawyer who could handle my case, YEA, RIGHT. Long story short I ended up filing a complaint with the Indiana Bar Association against him, I won, he lost. He was reprimanded for his conduct and forced to refund all of my money I had paid him but I still didn't have a lawsuit against the company that had defrauded me, they disappeared and I never got my money back from them.

I finally got my engine parts back from the FAA a couple years later, well all that they would let me have, they kept and I guess destroyed some of them. I had to purchase a used engine to get enough parts to have mine rebuilt again.
This time I drove to their facility after the FAA recommended a well known company to do the work and checked them out personally. THEY DID A GREAT JOB! And I finally got my plane back in the air after three or so years and no more problems. The plane, a Beechcraft, was finally, truly airworthy and I flew the heck out of it all across the US of A.

When my next annual came up I had the FBO find a A&P mechanic who would do it, they didn't have any of their own, they just had a list of local A&P's. So I go to the airport one day and notice my hanger is empty but my plane is not in the FBO hanger, where is it! Ahhhh! he must be out test flying it, WRONG! He flew it to Pennsylvania to see relatives and hadn't yet done the annual. On top of that he got weathered in and had to take a Greyhound bus back to Indy to be at work Monday. It took a week to get it back and still no annual. I should have sued but then I have grown to hate lawyers too.

I get another A&P and he takes the plane to another airport where his equipment is and that's OK I guess but then I find out he left the
plane parked there and left on a two week vacation to Florida and didn't tell me. And that my friends (if I have any left) was the last
straw.

Now! I am truly sorry to those, who deserve it, who took offense to my first post but that's why I feel the way I do.

 

[Ggreen]

Your story of getting ripped off is super common, and there are a lot of scumbags and thieves in aviation no doubt. They generally feed off of people by luring in victims with "great deals" "just as good as" or "you don't need bring an A&P you can get the guy on field to prebuy it for you. I don't know a career A&P IA that will sign off shady inspections, I've heard of guys who don't A&P for a living that do that kind of thing and usually take a cut off sales when the owner scams a buyer. Don't take offense, but a lot of what you experienced would have been headed off by paying a competent a&p to do the prebuy on your airplane. I can't tell you how many airplanes I've had to make right that were purchased by "owners who know better than A&P's" without a prebuy. That is like buying a house without letting an inspector look at it. I definitely would have found the starter problem.

As far as the FAA taking your airworthiness cert I would have had some major words with them, they are in a place to determine airworthiness of an engine without a proper inspection. If your engine was cleaned and repainted, it was still airworthy from before unless it was signed off as failing its annual. Now if the shop was putting in red tag crankshafts I can see that prompting an ad and inspection, but your situation still is very strange like I've never heard of the FAA confiscating engine parts on a non crashed airplane. Very weird. It seems as if your ignorance has been exploited over and over.

I cannot for the life of me figure out why someone would let do an annual inspection on their aircraft without a maintenance contract and knowing when and where it is going to take place. Again, I'm guessing these guys were cheap, and you get what you pay for. A good mechanic is not cheap, and a cheap mechanic is much more expensive than a good one.

I'm guessing musketeer? That airplane is a nightmare from a maintenance standpoint. Engine was so unpopular that you can't hardly buy overhauled parts let alone new ones. Price is generally right tho and for numerous reasons, mainly that it is a notoriously bad airplane with a great brand name. Another example of saving money upfront to loose your &** on the back side. 11,500 for an overhaul is cheap for the amount of time a tech would spend tracking airworthy parts. 11,500 for a bonanza would be impossible.

 

[flightsimmer]

A- This aircraft was the third of four that I have owned and yes it was a Musketeer, a very nice looking one at that. It was in the deep
south so I had to fly commercial to look at it. I spent the first day looking it over real close and reading through the logs and I called a
friend who did a cursory AD check and compared that with the log books. I knew from the start that the engine was getting close to an overhaul, aren't they all. They fly them until their out of hours then sell them to avoid the cost, but I knew that from the start, engines are my thing, I rebuild them for a living. Had I checked or flown it at night I would have discovered those problems sooner.

The next day after finding nothing glaringly wrong that I couldn't handle I made the purchase and flew it home, no problems.
I still think it was a decent purchase price all things considered and I knew the engine was a stepchild but I was hoping to upgrade to a
180 hp engine in the future, never got that far.

B- The FAA requested or demanded (I don't remember which) a tear down of the engine while they were present so we set a day and time
and they came out and watched. At that time they took possession of the cylinders and something else as evidence for prosecuting the
company that did the supposed work and gave me a receipt for the parts as I recall. I thought they were going to assist me in getting my money back, WRONG! They had no interest in helping me, just the prosecution. They also took or made copy's of my paperwork from that company as evidence. I'm not 100% sure of all the details because it has been so long ago. My friends at the FBO kept an eye on what
was going on I hope to watch out for my interest, they never deputed anything.

C- I never discussed price or anything beyond a through inspection to find any problems at which point we would discuss fixing them. By the
way, I had never heard of a maintenance contract for an annual inspection with a non-FBO, A&P-AI.
There are a whole lot more things I could include but I don't want to get off track and end up writing a book here, it's been to long
already.

 

[Ggreen]

A- This aircraft was the third of four that I have owned and yes it was a Musketeer, a very nice looking one at that. It was in the deep
south so I had to fly commercial to look at it. I spent the first day looking it over real close and reading through the logs and I called a
friend who did a cursory AD check and compared that with the log books. I knew from the start that the engine was getting close to an overhaul, aren't they all. They fly them until their out of hours then sell them to avoid the cost, but I knew that from the start, engines are my thing, I rebuild them for a living. Had I checked or flown it at night I would have discovered those problems sooner.

The next day after finding nothing glaringly wrong that I couldn't handle I made the purchase and flew it home, no problems.
I still think it was a decent purchase price all things considered and I knew the engine was a stepchild but I was hoping to upgrade to a
180 hp engine in the future, never got that far.

B- The FAA requested or demanded (I don't remember which) a tear down of the engine while they were present so we set a day and time
and they came out and watched. At that time they took possession of the cylinders and something else as evidence for prosecuting the
company that did the supposed work and gave me a receipt for the parts as I recall. I thought they were going to assist me in getting my money back, WRONG! They had no interest in helping me, just the prosecution. They also took or made copy's of my paperwork from that company as evidence. I'm not 100% sure of all the details because it has been so long ago. My friends at the FBO kept an eye on what
was going on I hope to watch out for my interest, they never deputed anything.

C- I never discussed price or anything beyond a through inspection to find any problems at which point we would discuss fixing them. By the
way, I had never heard of a maintenance contract for an annual inspection with a non-FBO, A&P-AI.
There are a whole lot more things I could include but I don't want to get off track and end up writing a book here, it's been to long
already.

Musketeer makes sense with the engine overhaul problems, it's a real bastard model and spares just aren't there. I would have told the faa to kick rocks if they told me they wanted to watch me tear down a fresh engine, but most people wouldn't and comply with whatever nonsense the inspectors god complex comes up with.

I always have a work order (mx contract) signed when I do private work. There are a ton of boilerplate ones online and it saves hurt feelings. Here is what I'm doing, here is where your airplane will park and here is my timeframe. Shady cheap IA's will jerk you around and you happened to see that first hand. Aviation is compromise whether in aerodynamics or cost of ownership, there is no such thing as an affordable middle class airplane, unless it is your only hobby. I have been flown around by people buying airplanes to do a prebuy, because they trust me and my experience wouldn't miss 24v electrical items in a 12v plane. That would have been full stop and I would have sent you straight back home and put you on a better buy. That kind of stuff happens 1 of 2 ways A. Shady cut rate non career A&P, B. Shady pilot looking to turn quick profits off of his storage unit full of salvaged airplane parts. You prove the point of the value of a good experienced A&P when you say you went through it in detail. Any number of A&P's would have rejected that aircraft no matter how good of a deal it was. AD compliance in the log is different than on the aircraft as well, I've seen an ad signed off in the book and gone out to the airplane to find the AD out of compliance. I generally charge 150 dollars a day plus travel and 75 dollar per diem. You would have been looking at a lot less wasted money by buying experience and honesty from a mechanic that has zero interest in the sellers side. Pilots buy paint and interior, A&P's buy quality airplanes that may need some cosmetic work.

Overhaul time in a part 91 non flight training for hire aircraft are suggestions. And poor ones based not on fact but magical figures that engineers working for the fed come up with. I've seen 500 hour engines that needed an overhaul, and ive seen 5000 hour engines that have good compression and make power for days. I cannot understand why pilots and owners do not read Mike Busch's books and articles that cover this. Owners would rather have a low TSO than a quality running aircraft engine. It is a paradigm that boggles my mind. My job as an A&P is not to make up work, it's to save you money by doing it right the first time and keep your airplane in the air as safe and as much as possible. That is how you get return customers, and there are a lot of us.

But your story plays out all over the internet and in airport diners. It is always blame the mechanic, blame the faa, but never take a look at what you did wrong. It's not fun to be wrong but it is important not to keep slamming legitiment professionals everytime you see a window because you made poor decisions. I've seen one of the best, most knowledgeable, skilled, talented, and honest IA's I've ever met get run completely out of business because a person was upset about him not pencil whipping an annual. The slander that pilot spewed at every airport in the area took an immediate effect, and the good customers kept their mouths shut and started get to old and broke down to pass medicals. I mean this guy was honest to a fault, he was great and slander destroyed him. Everything he had in his life was in that hangar shop and this broke a$$ pilots mean boys club shut him out completely. What a terrible asset that flying community lost. But he was replaced by a part timer who could do 10 annuals in a single weekend! For half the cost no less, now how many of those do you think really got checked out? Have you ever seen a trim cable turnbuckle get locked up on a rib? I have, and it was because the cable had so much slack that the turnbuckle migrated 6 feet from where it was supposed to be. The only reason that pilot walked away was because he had flown crop dusters his entire life and been through situations fighter pilots would wet themselves in.

Sucks that you had to go to the school of hard knocks. But arrogance and machoism leads a lot of private inexperienced, even experienced ones, owners down these roads. A good A&P would have had a toolbox leanin conversation over a 6 pack at the end of a long day and explained in depth why no one should ever own a musketeer.

 

[flightsimmer]

Well I've spent enough time on this post already but bottom line is, after I got the aircraft straightened out, I loved flying it and put several hundred hours on it.

 

[Spear Dane]

Well I've spent enough time on this post already but bottom line is, after I got the aircraft straightened out, I loved flying it and put several hundred hours on it.

I don't blame you for verging on being a raging maniac. And that mechanic that TOOK your plane? Well doing that in a car is so very very illegal and I can't imagine a plane would be less so. I would have prosecuted his butt big time.

 

[chezuki]

Wow... INGO really can make a pissing match out of anything.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Wow... INGO really can make a pissing match out of anything.

You must be new here... LOL

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I finally got to listen/watch to the video yesterday. I'm impressed. You could tell she was really shaken up when she got the news. But...as time went by, you could hear her confidence grow. Good for her.