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  1. #21
    Grandmaster indykid's Avatar

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    Legally AF and unconstitutional F has to lock-box 4473s taken from dealers who give up their license for one reason or another. This is the same agency that violates your "shall not be infringed" by banning full auto or select fire weapons, just banned bump stocks, blackmails you with a $200 tax and paperwork to own rifles shorter than 26 inches, rifles with barrels shorter than 16 inches, etc., etc., etc.

    Does anyone really think they wouldn't create a hidden database of serial numbers on those 4473s? Granted many might have been sold privately after the initial background check, but it would still give ATF an illegal database. Somehow I doubt they would selectively violate the law, or our rights.

  2. #22
    The BOFH GPIA7R's Avatar

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    Can't have expanded bg checks on private sales without registration. It's not enforceable.

    Registration is a big bad. Shouldn't be allowed to happen.

    Same with "buy backs"... it's confiscation. No other way around it.
    You see me empty, sir, do not pause and inquire. Simply assume and refill.

  3. #23
    Grandmaster DoggyDaddy's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSnyper View Post
    But then how does one get charged with not following the law if UBCs become law? The logical step is that they would require a registration of some sort. The ATF can obviously audit an FFL and see if they can account for everything. Don't you think that if UBCs become law, then part of that will be to create some way to tell if folks (private sellers) are breaking the law, i.e. a defacto registration?

    This is NOT something we should even think of conceding on.



    Again, then how is the law actually enforced if UBCs become law, without a trail?



    Yep, and 100% understood.



    This is my thought. How would they, without requiring a tracking system of some sort. The proponents of it will not call it a registration, but it will be.
    Well, logically they could open up the NICS system to the public. But we all know how bogged down they get from time to time with just the FFLs calling them. They would have to double or triple their staff to handle the additional traffic. Or they could make the online system more robust and also available to the public. Then Joe Citizen just enters his name, the buyer's name and type of gun being sold - no serial numbers. Still not foolproof, and it never will be, which is why UBC's are stupid (or retarded for jamil). Even if they required registration, how are they going to know who did things by the book and who didn't? They wouldn't. And unless the gun were used in a crime and somehow came to their attention, they would have no reason to start investigating. It would be massively impractical to try and enforce.

  4. #24
    Master seedubs1's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoggyDaddy View Post
    Well, logically they could open up the NICS system to the public. But we all know how bogged down they get from time to time with just the FFLs calling them. They would have to double or triple their staff to handle the additional traffic. Or they could make the online system more robust and also available to the public. Then Joe Citizen just enters his name, the buyer's name and type of gun being sold - no serial numbers. Still not foolproof, and it never will be, which is why UBC's are stupid (or retarded for jamil). Even if they required registration, how are they going to know who did things by the book and who didn't? They wouldn't. And unless the gun were used in a crime and somehow came to their attention, they would have no reason to start investigating. It would be massively impractical to try and enforce.
    Opening NICS to the public or allowing people to get a yearly “I passed a background check” ID to show for purchases is the only way this works and doesn’t piss off the right wing.

    UBCs, Pistol brace bans, and mag capacity limits seem to be coming.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if Trump did to pistol braces what he did to bump stocks.
    Quote Originally Posted by KG1 View Post
    You are the expert in all things read about on the internet.

  5. #25
    Marksman

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    Quote Originally Posted by fullmetaljesus View Post
    Right wing republicans put him in office.
    Typically speaking gun lovers are right wing republicans.

    Do y'all really think he will alienate his voter base this close to am election year?
    Yes I do believe he is capable of alienating a segment of his base on this issue after he candy coats his reasoning.

    Who would they be left to vote for that would be any more supportive of the 2nd?

  6. #26
    Marksman Noble Sniper's Avatar

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    Hopefully he will not repeat HW.......and have history repeat itself


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  7. #27
    Grandmaster BugI02's Avatar

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    If you don't have a number of firearms in your collection that have no paper trail, you are too trusting of the (any) government. I had a 'few' but haven't been able to bring myself to recreate that part of my collection since the tragic boating accident
    You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you

  8. #28
    Plinker

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    Sans the cluster fornication of the bumpstock ban I have been a solid Trump supporter since June of 2015. He did not align 100% with my worldview but he said the right things and I felt and still feel he was the most pragmatic candidate to beat HRC.

    With that being said, he is on the verge of losing me as a supporter and many others. Some of the cynics here are colored jaded by Trump I don't care. We had two choices in 2016 HRC and Trump. In 2020 they're will be two choices: Trump and a Socialist. If he does not back away from the ledge of expanded background checks and red flags or if he pushes further, for the first time in my life I will not vote for a Presidential Candidate.

    This goes to for any other Republican on the ballot as well.

  9. #29
    Grandmaster Denny347's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by indykid View Post

    Does anyone really think they wouldn't create a hidden database of serial numbers on those 4473s? Granted many might have been sold privately after the initial background check, but it would still give ATF an illegal database. Somehow I doubt they would selectively violate the law, or our rights.
    Having talked to co-workers who work with the ATF and has visited their facility, they are not putting together a secret database. With acres of metal shipping containers filled with paper records, they don't have the staff to trace routine LE requests. Let alone create a database from tons of paper records.
    On the other side of fear lies freedom.

  10. #30
    Grandmaster Expat's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by spec4 View Post
    Trump needs to stop this in its tracks. He's not stupid, he knows his base. He knows the Dems will never be satisfied until we are disarmed. Some of us recall the Gun Control Act of 1968. That was supposed to be the end all to this crap. Sure hope Trump's advisors give him a dose of reality.
    President Trump expressed confidence Friday that he could rally recalcitrant Republicans around legislation strengthening background checks and persuade the nation’s powerful gun lobby to drop its long-standing opposition to such measures, tasks that have proved elusive following other mass shootings on his watch.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...cce_story.html

    He is leading the charge. I saw him on FNC earlier, he said his base is united behind him on the issue.

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