Private sale and gun show "loophole" background checks on the horizon?

[LARRY1]

Gun regisery

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that under the current system (going through NICS), serial numbers are not "tied" to the buyer on a national database. That information resides on the 4473 only (kept at the FFL). What gets reported to NICS whether over the phone or online, is that "John Doe bought a handgun" or "John Doe bought a long gun." I have never heard an FFL relay that information to NICS when they would call in for any purchase I've made. I was also under the impression that it is specifically against the law (currently) for that information to be centralized by the government. So if some form of UBC were to be enacted, couldn't it be done the same way? "John Doe is selling a long gun (or hand gun) to Bob Smith." No serial numbers need be passed to the .gov.

Don't get me wrong, I am not in favor of UBC's but I don't know that they would necessarily have to become a "registry" if they were just done under the current guidelines.

A few years ago i trded a ruger revolvr to my brother inlaw. And.he.traded it at a gun shop for.something else, a few years after that i came.home from.work one day and.my wife told me that a detective.called from texas and.wanted.to.talk to me and left a.call back number, at.the.time i had never been to.texas. when i called him back a guy was.arrestdd for a crime in texas and he had my ruger revolver, they contacted ruger to find out where the gun was sold and got the records that lead them to the gunshop that soold it to me. THEY CAN FIND OUT!

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

Looks familiar... to the one in my inbox

BS reply in my opinion

Im a strong advocate for the 2A.......but......." We need to strengthen background checks, extreme risk protection orders(red flag laws), and restrictions on modifications"

My thoughts are as follows. F U Braun!

Donnellyesque?

 

[Dan35]

OK, lets get some perspective on this. We all know that many/most of the mass shootings would have been prevented (as the proposed laws intend) if they were in place. So let's list all of those shootings that would have been prevented by these laws. You start ---

1.

Thought so.

 

[churchmouse]

A few years ago i trded a ruger revolvr to my brother inlaw. And.he.traded it at a gun shop for.something else, a few years after that i came.home from.work one day and.my wife told me that a detective.called from texas and.wanted.to.talk to me and left a.call back number, at.the.time i had never been to.texas. when i called him back a guy was.arrestdd for a crime in texas and he had my ruger revolver, they contacted ruger to find out where the gun was sold and got the records that lead them to the gunshop that soold it to me. THEY CAN FIND OUT!

Man please work on punctuation.....

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

Smart phone, I'm guessing.

 

[Dead Duck]

ARRGGH...
Stupid Smart Phones!

 

[Cameramonkey]

All it takes is a new Congress and Dem president willing to create the jobs to sift through those mountains of 4473s in order to create a digital catalog.

A few years ago i trded a ruger revolvr to my brother inlaw. And.he.traded it at a gun shop for.something else, a few years after that i came.home from.work one day and.my wife told me that a detective.called from texas and.wanted.to.talk to me and left a.call back number, at.the.time i had never been to.texas. when i called him back a guy was.arrestdd for a crime in texas and he had my ruger revolver, they contacted ruger to find out where the gun was sold and got the records that lead them to the gunshop that soold it to me. THEY CAN FIND OUT!

Yes. But they had to jump through tons of hoops. And that is good.

detective Call Ruger
Ruger tells them to call Bradis
Detective calls Bradis and says "who did you sell this gun to?"
Some poor soul at Bradis has to dig through boxes of 4473s to find the form and fax it to the detective.
Detective calls you.
You tell the detective you sold it to your brother
Detective has to call your brother...
etc etc etc.

It ends when the trail goes cold "I sold it to a guy at the 1500 but I dont have his number anymore" or "I lost it in a boating accident" or they reach somebody with a connection to the perp. Or maybe they reach a guy who says "yeah, my truck was broken into a year ago and that gun was stolen." and hopefully that poor sucker gets it back.

I think this is an acceptable way to trace guns. They can do it, but not programmatically to abuse a registry.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

A few years ago i trded a ruger revolvr to my brother inlaw. And.he.traded it at a gun shop for.something else, a few years after that i came.home from.work one day and.my wife told me that a detective.called from texas and.wanted.to.talk to me and left a.call back number, at.the.time i had never been to.texas. when i called him back a guy was.arrestdd for a crime in texas and he had my ruger revolver, they contacted ruger to find out where the gun was sold and got the records that lead them to the gunshop that soold it to me. THEY CAN FIND OUT!

Started to reply but Cameramonkey pretty much said what I was going to in post #87.

 

[rvb]

1st, I know from previous discussions that most disagree w/ me but I still think the current 4473s *ARE* a registry. A poor non-centrally-located registry w/ lots of holes and manual searching, but a registry non-the-less. I googled the definition of registry and found "a place or office where registers or records are kept." So whether the link between you and your guns are on a spreadsheet or a filing cabinet at ATF HQ, or in boxes at 10 different FFLs, it's a registry. Why else would firearms need SNs? Why else would ATF retain those records when stores close? Why else would police even search for the "origin" of a gun used in a crime? Who cares about the gun's origin, focus on the crime, right? It's to make sure that when you sold that gun that's "registered" in your name you followed all applicable laws. The massive holes in the registry come from the current laws allowing you to sell the gun w/o continuing the registration chain.

Again, don't get me wrong, I am against UBC's. But they could (in theory) simply make private sales illegal without going through an FFL. But that is really unenforceable. But it wouldn't require a registry.

What is the purpose of a law that is not enforceable?

States that I am aware of that have UBC laws (MD, NY, CA) have state registrations for that reason. I doubt we'd get one w/o the other since the anti-gun folks have actually done this before...

And are UBCs REALLY unenforceable w/o NEW registry legislation? they can use our current "not a registry box of 4473s" to trace a gun to you. If you sell it to someone "under the table" and they use it in a crime, they'll start asking you questions, like "what dealer did you use for the transfer?" Sure you can point to the 5th or clam up and ask for lawyer or lie and say yes but you don't remember which dealer, etc.... what if they go to every dealer in the county and find no record? What if they then press charges for not doing a UBC? Sure burden is of proof is on them, but can you trust 12 of your "peers" to see it that way?? What if the guy arrested w/ the gun pleads to gets his sentence reduced and admits to not going through an FFL? Now two "bad guys" are off the street...

So it does require a registry to be enforceable, just maybe not a BETTER registry where they can quickly cross reference your name to any guns you own...

The scary version of UBC/registration is what if the FFL doesn't process the paperwork correctly or some other bureaucratic/electronic SNAFU and now even though you DID go through the correct UBC hoops, the registry still shows the gun in your name when your buddy is arrested. uh oh! Now the burden of proof IS on you. people will be keeping FFL receipts in safety deposit boxes like NFA paperwork*....

* An acknowledged registry that until recently was just a bunch of filing cabinets full of paper transfer records no different from the current stacks of 4473s, other than scale.

-rvb

 

[RugerAvenue9]

Of course this would raise questions on a national registry.
Not sure how they could do this constitutionally, but the federal government always seems to find a way to make it work.

Yes, as a seller, you would be required to maintain records of all sales. Or just let a federal agency take care of the record keeping for you.

Could not have said this better. I support Trump when he is in line with the Constitution but any federal firearm laws are unconstitutional and look how many we already have on the books? No more legislation that treats law abiding citizens like criminals and infringing on our right to defend ourselves.

This news program from the1960s that aired on television weekly is as relevant today as it was then.

The Right to Keep and Bear Arms -Dan Smoot

[video=youtube_share;S6Gm3IKobcE]https://youtu.be/S6Gm3IKobcE[/video]

 

[RugerAvenue9]

Go to your local Sheriff and speak toward the oath they took to uphold the Constitution just like every other government official. If you write a letter to Congress today (this is from experience as I have done it) your rep returns with another piece of legislation as the solution that appears more conservative. No federal gun laws and they need to get back to limited before our freedoms are gone.

This video has some great wisdom to offer. Your Sheriff may just be the key to keeping tyrannical national government regulations at bay. At least Justice Scalia opined as much in his case with another Sheriff against the federal government over the Brady bill passed by the Clinton administration.

His book is worth checking out and sending on to your local sheriff. The people are also a check in our system to make sure government is limited by constitutional law leaving the people alone.

Sheriff Mack - The Power of the County Sheriff
[video=youtube_share;rWkvh0NTr6c]https://youtu.be/rWkvh0NTr6c[/video]

Printz [Mack] v. United States

This video explains how the Brady Act unconstitutionally forced states to be ruled by federal legislation. It was decided that states were subject to no federal dictation.
[video=youtube_share;SBPAkZVj-UU]https://youtu.be/SBPAkZVj-UU[/video]