Private sale and gun show "loophole" background checks on the horizon?

[ArcadiaGP]

UBCs won't work. Period, full stop. Releasing certain medical information (like psychiatric treatment/commitment/adjudicated bat**** crazy info) being added to the NICS database would "strengthen" background checks without resorting to a UBC. But as always, this would only impact the law-abiding, and not the criminals bent on doing harm.

Right. UBC is impossible without registration.

If trump ends up being the president that paves the way for registration....

 

[KittySlayer]

UBCs won't work. Period, full stop. Releasing certain medical information (like psychiatric treatment/commitment/adjudicated bat**** crazy info) being added to the NICS database would "strengthen" background checks without resorting to a UBC. But as always, this would only impact the law-abiding, and not the criminals bent on doing harm.

Remember unintended consequences. Releasing more medical information that impacts UBC approval will cause more people who genuinely need help crawl into their shell and self treat so they can keep their guns.

 

[Sigblitz]

The money you pay for a background check, where does the money go?

 

[ArcadiaGP]

The money you pay for a background check, where does the money go?

Doesn't matter. Biggest deal is the federal registration requirement that comes with it.

Stop talking about UBC.

UBC = Registration

 

[Sigblitz]

Serious question. I'm just following the money.

 

[Twangbanger]

Not likely since the ATF is not allowed to digitize those records. When a FFL goes out of business and send in it's records to the ATF, they get stored in a metal shipping container to never be seen again unless one of us asks for a gun trace then they have to go through the stacks of records by hand. Without digitizing those records, serial numbers will NEVER be attached.

Not exactly correct. The ATF Firearm Tracing Center operates a substantial number of scanning machines. The 4473 forms which arrive are scanned into JPEG files, as time and resources permit, then discarded, and these scanned files are viewable on a computer by employees to perform firearm traces. Those JPEG files are simply not (currently) allowed to be "searchable" (ie, no entering of information in a searchable relational database, no optical character recognition, etc.). There are a good number which are not scanned in yet, which are still in file boxes, but the plan is to eventually scan them all.

When (not if) that Universal Background Check legislation gets signed by the next Democrat President, the real fight for the NRA and pro-gun congressmen will be to prevent authorization and funding of updated digital capabilities at this agency - effectively reversing the provision of the GCA'68 which prevents the establishment of a registration database. Last time we got an Assault Weapon Ban, the "sunset clause poison pill" was inserted. Preventing effective digitization will be the "poison pill" that has to be fought for this time around.

Accurate description of the firearm is the Achilles heel of the 4473 form. What I suspect congress will do with UBC, is ban the manufacture and sale of new assault rifles - but allow existing ones to continue to be transferred. Many rifles are already out there, which may be impossible to trace if they weren't accurately described on the 4473. And, ATF may wait years for those 4473s to be submitted. But depending how the UBC legislation is written, all those rifles could come back onto the ATF's radar screen again, if people start transferring them through the new system. And if prices go up anything like what machine guns have done, based on scarcity, those guns are going to get transferred.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Doesn't matter. Biggest deal is the federal registration requirement that comes with it.

Stop talking about UBC.

UBC = Registration

Again, don't get me wrong, I am against UBC's. But they could (in theory) simply make private sales illegal without going through an FFL. But that is really unenforceable. But it wouldn't require a registry.

 

[Cameramonkey]

If you don’t have a registry you don’t know where the guns are to know when they move.

If you don’t know where the gun is today, how do you prove the transfer happened illegally tomorrow if you don’t know where it was before? "Why no, officer, I've always had this gun" or "this was transferred before the transfer ban kicked in."

You cant enforce a UBC without first having a registry.

 

[Sigblitz]

The money you pay for a background check, where does the money go?

Anybody?

 

[Cameramonkey]

Anybody?

Some goes to the state, some goes to the local Leo. Both ostensibly to pay for manpower to run the checks.

 

[actaeon277]

local leo money goes to training

 

[Sigblitz]

Thanks. I tried looking it up. So obviously money isn't a factor.

 

[Sigblitz]

Maybe they just want a gun registry.

 

[Life Member]

If some of these things happen as discussed count me out.

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

Just an FYI. Response I got from Se. Braun and similar to the one I got from Walorski.

Thank you for contacting my office regardingSecond Amendment protections to keep and bear arms. I appreciate hearing from you.




I am an
avid hunter, a National Rifle Association member, and stand 100 percent
in support of the Second Amendment. In the Senate, I will oppose any
efforts to restrict the rights of law-abiding gun owners and will
protect their ability to defend themselves and their families in
life-threatening situations. Because of this, I have co-sponsored S. 69,
the Constitutional Carry Reciprocity Act
, S. 1506, a bill to permit those complying with state firearm laws to carry, and S. 351, the Gun Owners Registration Information Protection Act.



I am deeply
troubled, though, by the recent shootings that took place in El Paso,
Texas and Dayton, Ohio. Simply put, there is no place for the hate that
motivated these attacks in our great country. Americans are collectively
grieving the loss of our fellow citizens to senseless violence. My wife
Maureen and I are praying for the victims and survivors of these
horrific events.



I
know that the federal government’s most fundamental responsibility is
to keep citizens safe. As a United States Senator, public safety is
therefore a top priority. Steps must be taken to ensure that the
mentally ill and those who wish to do others harm are not able to
legally purchase and possess firearms to commit violent acts.






Mass shootings and gun violence
across the country create complex situations, and I believe that we need
solutions to prevent those who only wish to do others harm from gaining
access to dangerous weapons. First and foremost, I believe our existing
laws need to be fully enforced. Second, I believe a meaningful
legislative solution would include reforms to strengthen background
checks, extreme risk protection orders and commonsense restrictions on
modifications that allow legal firearms to function like fully automatic
military style weapons. Lastly, we as Americans must take the time
required to address and respond to the part of our culture that
glorifies violence and instead empower communities to focus mental
health services.






Any legislation that I support
or vote for will have to be constructed in a way that protects
law-abiding Americans’ access to their Second Amendment rights. As I
consider any currently proposed legislation, I will keep your thoughts
in mind.






Thank you for contacting me. It
is an honor to serve as your U.S. Senator from Indiana. Please keep in
touch with me on issues of concern to you. You can also follow me on
Twitter or Facebook for real-time updates on my activities in the U.S.
Senate. If I ever may be of service, please do not hesitate to contact
me.




Sincerely,

Mike Braun

U.S. Senator


P.S. This message was sent by email to save taxpayer dollars.

 

[bwframe]

If only we had an organization that could pass along our wishes and educate those who represent us in government?

It seems as though, as of late, our numbers and influence are underestimated?

There was a time when threats like this were met with huge increases in participation numbers that had an influence of its own...

 

[KellyinAvon]

Just an FYI. Response I got from Se. Braun and similar to the one I got from Walorski.

Thank you for contacting my office regardingSecond Amendment protections to keep and bear arms. I appreciate hearing from you.




I am an
avid hunter, a National Rifle Association member, and stand 100 percent
in support of the Second Amendment. In the Senate, I will oppose any
efforts to restrict the rights of law-abiding gun owners and will
protect their ability to defend themselves and their families in
life-threatening situations. Because of this, I have co-sponsored S. 69,
the Constitutional Carry Reciprocity Act
, S. 1506, a bill to permit those complying with state firearm laws to carry, and S. 351, the Gun Owners Registration Information Protection Act.



I am deeply
troubled, though, by the recent shootings that took place in El Paso,
Texas and Dayton, Ohio. Simply put, there is no place for the hate that
motivated these attacks in our great country. Americans are collectively
grieving the loss of our fellow citizens to senseless violence. My wife
Maureen and I are praying for the victims and survivors of these
horrific events.



I
know that the federal government’s most fundamental responsibility is
to keep citizens safe. As a United States Senator, public safety is
therefore a top priority. Steps must be taken to ensure that the
mentally ill and those who wish to do others harm are not able to
legally purchase and possess firearms to commit violent acts.






Mass shootings and gun violence
across the country create complex situations, and I believe that we need
solutions to prevent those who only wish to do others harm from gaining
access to dangerous weapons. First and foremost, I believe our existing
laws need to be fully enforced. Second, I believe a meaningful
legislative solution would include reforms to strengthen background
checks, extreme risk protection orders and commonsense restrictions on
modifications that allow legal firearms to function like fully automatic
military style weapons. Lastly, we as Americans must take the time
required to address and respond to the part of our culture that
glorifies violence and instead empower communities to focus mental
health services.






Any legislation that I support
or vote for will have to be constructed in a way that protects
law-abiding Americans’ access to their Second Amendment rights. As I
consider any currently proposed legislation, I will keep your thoughts
in mind.






Thank you for contacting me. It
is an honor to serve as your U.S. Senator from Indiana. Please keep in
touch with me on issues of concern to you. You can also follow me on
Twitter or Facebook for real-time updates on my activities in the U.S.
Senate. If I ever may be of service, please do not hesitate to contact
me.




Sincerely,

Mike Braun

U.S. Senator


P.S. This message was sent by email to save taxpayer dollars.

Looks familiar... to the one in my inbox

 

[jagibbons]

All it takes is a new Congress and Dem president willing to create the jobs to sift through those mountains of 4473s in order to create a digital catalog.

 

[jagibbons]

One of the worst things about the UBCs as the Communist Democrats envision them, is that it will be illegal for me to bring a friend to the range to shoot one of my guns without paying for a background check. Same is true on my family farm.

 

[d.kaufman]

Just an FYI. Response I got from Se. Braun and similar to the one I got from Walorski.

Thank you for contacting my office regardingSecond Amendment protections to keep and bear arms. I appreciate hearing from you.




I am an
avid hunter, a National Rifle Association member, and stand 100 percent
in support of the Second Amendment. In the Senate, I will oppose any
efforts to restrict the rights of law-abiding gun owners and will
protect their ability to defend themselves and their families in
life-threatening situations. Because of this, I have co-sponsored S. 69,
the Constitutional Carry Reciprocity Act
, S. 1506, a bill to permit those complying with state firearm laws to carry, and S. 351, the Gun Owners Registration Information Protection Act.



I am deeply
troubled, though, by the recent shootings that took place in El Paso,
Texas and Dayton, Ohio. Simply put, there is no place for the hate that
motivated these attacks in our great country. Americans are collectively
grieving the loss of our fellow citizens to senseless violence. My wife
Maureen and I are praying for the victims and survivors of these
horrific events.



I
know that the federal government’s most fundamental responsibility is
to keep citizens safe. As a United States Senator, public safety is
therefore a top priority. Steps must be taken to ensure that the
mentally ill and those who wish to do others harm are not able to
legally purchase and possess firearms to commit violent acts.






Mass shootings and gun violence
across the country create complex situations, and I believe that we need
solutions to prevent those who only wish to do others harm from gaining
access to dangerous weapons. First and foremost, I believe our existing
laws need to be fully enforced. Second, I believe a meaningful
legislative solution would include reforms to strengthen background
checks, extreme risk protection orders and commonsense restrictions on
modifications that allow legal firearms to function like fully automatic
military style weapons. Lastly, we as Americans must take the time
required to address and respond to the part of our culture that
glorifies violence and instead empower communities to focus mental
health services.






Any legislation that I support
or vote for will have to be constructed in a way that protects
law-abiding Americans’ access to their Second Amendment rights. As I
consider any currently proposed legislation, I will keep your thoughts
in mind.






Thank you for contacting me. It
is an honor to serve as your U.S. Senator from Indiana. Please keep in
touch with me on issues of concern to you. You can also follow me on
Twitter or Facebook for real-time updates on my activities in the U.S.
Senate. If I ever may be of service, please do not hesitate to contact
me.




Sincerely,

Mike Braun

U.S. Senator


P.S. This message was sent by email to save taxpayer dollars.

BS reply in my opinion

Im a strong advocate for the 2A.......but......." We need to strengthen background checks, extreme risk protection orders(red flag laws), and restrictions on modifications"

My thoughts are as follows. F U Braun!