Private sale and gun show "loophole" background checks on the horizon?

[indykid]

Legally AF and unconstitutional F has to lock-box 4473s taken from dealers who give up their license for one reason or another. This is the same agency that violates your "shall not be infringed" by banning full auto or select fire weapons, just banned bump stocks, blackmails you with a $200 tax and paperwork to own rifles shorter than 26 inches, rifles with barrels shorter than 16 inches, etc., etc., etc.

Does anyone really think they wouldn't create a hidden database of serial numbers on those 4473s? Granted many might have been sold privately after the initial background check, but it would still give ATF an illegal database. Somehow I doubt they would selectively violate the law, or our rights.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Can't have expanded bg checks on private sales without registration. It's not enforceable.

Registration is a big bad. Shouldn't be allowed to happen.

Same with "buy backs"... it's confiscation. No other way around it.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

But then how does one get charged with not following the law if UBCs become law? The logical step is that they would require a registration of some sort. The ATF can obviously audit an FFL and see if they can account for everything. Don't you think that if UBCs become law, then part of that will be to create some way to tell if folks (private sellers) are breaking the law, i.e. a defacto registration?

This is NOT something we should even think of conceding on.



Again, then how is the law actually enforced if UBCs become law, without a trail?



Yep, and 100% understood.



This is my thought. How would they, without requiring a tracking system of some sort. The proponents of it will not call it a registration, but it will be.

Well, logically they could open up the NICS system to the public. But we all know how bogged down they get from time to time with just the FFLs calling them. They would have to double or triple their staff to handle the additional traffic. Or they could make the online system more robust and also available to the public. Then Joe Citizen just enters his name, the buyer's name and type of gun being sold - no serial numbers. Still not foolproof, and it never will be, which is why UBC's are stupid (or retarded for jamil). Even if they required registration, how are they going to know who did things by the book and who didn't? They wouldn't. And unless the gun were used in a crime and somehow came to their attention, they would have no reason to start investigating. It would be massively impractical to try and enforce.

 

[seedubs1]

Well, logically they could open up the NICS system to the public. But we all know how bogged down they get from time to time with just the FFLs calling them. They would have to double or triple their staff to handle the additional traffic. Or they could make the online system more robust and also available to the public. Then Joe Citizen just enters his name, the buyer's name and type of gun being sold - no serial numbers. Still not foolproof, and it never will be, which is why UBC's are stupid (or retarded for jamil). Even if they required registration, how are they going to know who did things by the book and who didn't? They wouldn't. And unless the gun were used in a crime and somehow came to their attention, they would have no reason to start investigating. It would be massively impractical to try and enforce.

Opening NICS to the public or allowing people to get a yearly “I passed a background check” ID to show for purchases is the only way this works and doesn’t **** off the right wing.

UBCs, Pistol brace bans, and mag capacity limits seem to be coming.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Trump did to pistol braces what he did to bump stocks.

 

[4651feeder]

Right wing republicans put him in office.
Typically speaking gun lovers are right wing republicans.

Do y'all really think he will alienate his voter base this close to am election year?

Yes I do believe he is capable of alienating a segment of his base on this issue after he candy coats his reasoning.

Who would they be left to vote for that would be any more supportive of the 2nd?

 

[Noble Sniper]

Hopefully he will not repeat HW.......and have history repeat itself


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BugI02]

If you don't have a number of firearms in your collection that have no paper trail, you are too trusting of the (any) government. I had a 'few' but haven't been able to bring myself to recreate that part of my collection since the tragic boating accident

 

[INPatriot]

Sans the cluster fornication of the bumpstock ban I have been a solid Trump supporter since June of 2015. He did not align 100% with my worldview but he said the right things and I felt and still feel he was the most pragmatic candidate to beat HRC.

With that being said, he is on the verge of losing me as a supporter and many others. Some of the cynics here are colored jaded by Trump I don't care. We had two choices in 2016 HRC and Trump. In 2020 they're will be two choices: Trump and a Socialist. If he does not back away from the ledge of expanded background checks and red flags or if he pushes further, for the first time in my life I will not vote for a Presidential Candidate.

This goes to for any other Republican on the ballot as well.

 

[Denny347]

Does anyone really think they wouldn't create a hidden database of serial numbers on those 4473s? Granted many might have been sold privately after the initial background check, but it would still give ATF an illegal database. Somehow I doubt they would selectively violate the law, or our rights.

Having talked to co-workers who work with the ATF and has visited their facility, they are not putting together a secret database. With acres of metal shipping containers filled with paper records, they don't have the staff to trace routine LE requests. Let alone create a database from tons of paper records.

 

[Expat]

Trump needs to stop this in its tracks. He's not stupid, he knows his base. He knows the Dems will never be satisfied until we are disarmed. Some of us recall the Gun Control Act of 1968. That was supposed to be the end all to this crap. Sure hope Trump's advisors give him a dose of reality.

President Trump expressed confidence Friday that he could rally recalcitrant Republicans around legislation strengthening background checks and persuade the nation’s powerful gun lobby to drop its long-standing opposition to such measures, tasks that have proved elusive following other mass shootings on his watch.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...6cbc26-ba9e-11e9-a091-6a96e67d9cce_story.html

He is leading the charge. I saw him on FNC earlier, he said his base is united behind him on the issue.

 

[INPatriot]

He is wrong.

 

[ashby koss]

While a centralized list is not allowed. A digital copy of the paperwork is FULLY ALLOWED. this paired with OCR technology and scanning along with record searching software, is all legal and has created a paper system that is just about as fast and accurate as having a full on database of gun owners.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/heres-how-cops-actually-trace-a-gun-2016-8

 

[KG1]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...6cbc26-ba9e-11e9-a091-6a96e67d9cce_story.html

He is leading the charge. I saw him on FNC earlier, he said his base is united behind him on the issue.

Me thinks Trump is fibbing again.

 

[AmmoManAaron]

Sans the cluster fornication of the bumpstock ban I have been a solid Trump supporter since June of 2015. He did not align 100% with my worldview but he said the right things and I felt and still feel he was the most pragmatic candidate to beat HRC.

With that being said, he is on the verge of losing me as a supporter and many others. Some of the cynics here are colored jaded by Trump I don't care. We had two choices in 2016 HRC and Trump. In 2020 they're will be two choices: Trump and a Socialist. If he does not back away from the ledge of expanded background checks and red flags or if he pushes further, for the first time in my life I will not vote for a Presidential Candidate.

This goes to for any other Republican on the ballot as well.

^^^Pretty much this^^^

My only difference is that I will not stay home. I will go and vote for the Constitution Party candidate (if there is one) or do a write-in. A Libertarian could get my vote, but it's unlikely since they've ran quite a few very bad candidates - most of whom were anti-gun.

 

[4651feeder]

...My only difference is that I will not stay home. I will go and vote for the Constitution Party candidate (if there is one) or do a write-in. A Libertarian could get my vote, but it's unlikely since they've ran quite a few very bad candidates - most of whom were anti-gun.

And then what? A third party candidate will NOT receive enough vote this election cycle to win that office and shifting support would only benefit the liberal candidate; will you be better off ultimately with the end result of one of the current Demoncrat contenders in office?

Believe me you. I have cringed and grimmaced at many of Trump's acts/statements, but at this time we're not going to find a Presidential candidate any more supportive of the 2nd.

 

[Expat]

And then what? A third party candidate will NOT receive enough vote this election cycle to win that office and shifting support would only benefit the liberal candidate; will you be better off ultimately with the end result of one of the current Demoncrat contenders in office?

Believe me you. I have cringed and grimmaced at many of Trump's acts/statements, but at this time we're not going to find a Presidential candidate any more supportive of the 2nd.

So under Obama we got zero new gun control. Under Trump, if he has his way, we are going to get a red flag law, universal background check and maybe something on other stuff but not sure. And you are making the case, we are doing better under Trump when it comes to guns than we did Obama?

 

[fullmetaljesus]

So under Obama we got zero new gun control. Under Trump, if he has his way, we are going to get a red flag law, universal background check and maybe something on other stuff but not sure. And you are making the case, we are doing better under Trump when it comes to guns than we did Obama?

This, say what you want about healthcare or any of his other policies. Obama was good for the gun industry. So many shops opened, so many shops saw a huge uptick in sales.

Where as since Trump took over we have fewer freedoms and potentially we will fewer and fewer as he continues.

 

[Leadeye]

How would all of the new restrictions have helped avert the current tragedies? It's my understanding these rifles were purchased from dealers and the shooters passed NICS. Nothing that's being talked about would have made a difference, the only people being impacted by it are the law abiding.

I've watched the failures of gun control legislation from 1968. The people driving this bus won't be satisfied until they get total disarmament of the general public and abolition of the second amendment. Then they will abolish the fourth amendment to make it easier to enforce the abolition of the second. It's fear that drives this, the fear of those in charge of losing power and control, even if it's only in their own minds.

 

[churchmouse]

How would all of the new restrictions have helped avert the current tragedies? It's my understanding these rifles were purchased from dealers and the shooters passed NICS. Nothing that's being talked about would have made a difference, the only people being impacted by it are the law abiding.

I've watched the failures of gun control legislation from 1968. The people driving this bus won't be satisfied until they get total disarmament of the general public and abolition of the second amendment. Then they will abolish the fourth amendment to make it easier to enforce the abolition of the second. It's fear that drives this, the fear of those in charge of losing power and control, even if it's only in their own minds.

"WINNER".

Close the thread.

 

[chipbennett]

So under Obama we got zero new gun control. Under Trump, if he has his way, we are going to get a red flag law, universal background check and maybe something on other stuff but not sure. And you are making the case, we are doing better under Trump when it comes to guns than we did Obama?

Wrong question. Are we doing better under Trump than we would have been under Hilary Clinton?

I held my nose and voted for McCain and again for Romney. Trump will get no support from me if he keeps attacking our rights, but I'll certainly vote for him over Biden, Faucahontas, Harris, or any of the other socialist Dem candidates.