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  1. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by zsm View Post
    This is the prime example of why these arguments never head in a positive direction. Why interject with this? There is no elitism here. Most people advocating newbies to buy BCM, Colt, and so on have already walked the walk and been burned. . . They just want people to avoid what they have experienced.

    I have witnessed Palmetto State Armory since the beginning of their AR days. I remember when they sent out a few midlength uppers with carbine length gas tubes. It is understandable that mistakes happen, but the major issue was that they did not even bother to test fire their uppers. I would say this is beyond negligent, even for a start-up. Has Palmetto improved since then? I would say yes; however, where is all this "savings" coming from? These are tools that can potentially be dangerous to the person using it, too.

    Colt, BCM, LMT and the like are not scamming you. That is what an AR costs. "How bad can they be?" From my experience, very bad. Trust your gut.
    This thread was doomed from the beginning. Opinion based bull is no different than the snap on vs craftsman debate on another forum I frequent. The satirical theatrics are purely for entertainment. I used an Anderson based blackout to kill my deer this year and it has run flawlessly. I recently came into abcm lower so the Anderson is finding a new home where it will run reliably for generations to come. Get off the high horse and enjoy the jokes.

  2. #332
    Expert Cerberus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zsm View Post
    This is the prime example of why these arguments never head in a positive direction. Why interject with this? There is no elitism here. Most people advocating newbies to buy BCM, Colt, and so on have already walked the walk and been burned. . . They just want people to avoid what they have experienced.

    I have witnessed Palmetto State Armory since the beginning of their AR days. I remember when they sent out a few midlength uppers with carbine length gas tubes. It is understandable that mistakes happen, but the major issue was that they did not even bother to test fire their uppers. I would say this is beyond negligent, even for a start-up. Has Palmetto improved since then? I would say yes; however, where is all this "savings" coming from? These are tools that can potentially be dangerous to the person using it, too.

    Colt, BCM, LMT and the like are not scamming you. That is what an AR costs. "How bad can they be?" From my experience, very bad. Trust your gut.
    I have witnessed most of these upper tier makers since well before you even knew what an AR was. I can tell you right now from many years of personal experience that I could take a BCM lower and upper and fill it with junk and those "in the know" will never even realize it. I use quality guts in any old upper or lower so long as it's in spec. I have access to enough metrology equipment to make most peoples head spin, up to and including a CMM. I am going to have to call you out on a good deal of what you have written, as anyone that has had as much bad luck as you claim to have had with firearms should probably find a new hobby all together, like cross stitch maybe.
    If you knew what Colt/FN actually asked for their M16s and M4s from the government you would probably realize that the extra few hundred they tack on for Joe Q. Public is a scam.

    I've been around hundreds of ARs in usage. Add in my military service and that would go into the thousands. I've witnessed 3 mechanical failures in all that time. 1 military and 2 civilian. The civilian examples were 1 loose gas key, and 1 case of broken gas key bolts. The military failure was a loose hammer pin.
    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." Voltaire

  3. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus View Post
    I have witnessed most of these upper tier makers since well before you even knew what an AR was. I can tell you right now from many years of personal experience that I could take a BCM lower and upper and fill it with junk and those "in the know" will never even realize it. I use quality guts in any old upper or lower so long as it's in spec. I have access to enough metrology equipment to make most peoples head spin, up to and including a CMM. I am going to have to call you out on a good deal of what you have written, as anyone that has had as much bad luck as you claim to have had with firearms should probably find a new hobby all together, like cross stitch maybe.
    If you knew what Colt/FN actually asked for their M16s and M4s from the government you would probably realize that the extra few hundred they tack on for Joe Q. Public is a scam.

    I've been around hundreds of ARs in usage. Add in my military service and that would go into the thousands. I've witnessed 3 mechanical failures in all that time. 1 military and 2 civilian. The civilian examples were 1 loose gas key, and 1 case of broken gas key bolts. The military failure was a loose hammer pin.
    First of all, as a guy who could not serve, I would like to thank you and all the other INGO members who have served. It is because of people like yourselves that people like me can build their own ar pistol.

    Now to add my fuel to this thread, I am guessing the gas key and hammer must have come from Palmetto or Anderson,cause they were obviously crap. And before anyone gets their undies in a knot, I think people should use the best quality parts they can afford, whether that is Anderson or Palmetto, or BCM,or whoever. I am not going to war with mine, and not defending my home with them, so if they break, I'll just fix em and move on.

  4. #334
    Plinker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus View Post
    I have witnessed most of these upper tier makers since well before you even knew what an AR was. I can tell you right now from many years of personal experience that I could take a BCM lower and upper and fill it with junk and those "in the know" will never even realize it. I use quality guts in any old upper or lower so long as it's in spec. I have access to enough metrology equipment to make most peoples head spin, up to and including a CMM. I am going to have to call you out on a good deal of what you have written, as anyone that has had as much bad luck as you claim to have had with firearms should probably find a new hobby all together, like cross stitch maybe.
    If you knew what Colt/FN actually asked for their M16s and M4s from the government you would probably realize that the extra few hundred they tack on for Joe Q. Public is a scam.

    I've been around hundreds of ARs in usage. Add in my military service and that would go into the thousands. I've witnessed 3 mechanical failures in all that time. 1 military and 2 civilian. The civilian examples were 1 loose gas key, and 1 case of broken gas key bolts. The military failure was a loose hammer pin.
    Why would I lie? To brag about how much money I've wasted when I was new to ARs? How do you think I benefit out of this? An even better question. . .if I DID happen to own those parts, where do you think I bought the majority of them?

  5. #335
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    Getting a bit edgy in here.
    We all have our own experiences.
    Mine have steered me away from the PSA level AR's. I have built more than a few and experienced some issues. Add to this delayed shipping and very poor communication it is just a no brainer to not buy from them any more.

    I have 2 rifles that are AR Stoner based with good internals and they are accurate and run just fine.

    The rest are a mix of manf. and they run just fine.

  6. #336

  7. #337
    Grandmaster Bigtanker's Avatar
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    So let me get this straight. My Anderson lower and PSA upper is like having a Kimber 1911 instead of a Wilson Combat?

    Quote Originally Posted by pudly View Post
    FYI- You can make that assumption, but not everyone intends to dicker.
    Quote Originally Posted by rhino View Post
    Sponge Bob was the engineer who designed the Glock trigger. The feel of the trigger press was a self-portrait.


    ***Hey, you be friends with Kirk Freeman and see how it affects you.***
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  8. #338
    Master JollyMon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigtanker View Post
    So let me get this straight. My Anderson lower and PSA upper is like having a Kimber 1911 instead of a Wilson Combat?
    Yes
    Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far.

    Quote Originally Posted by GPIA7R View Post
    And if it could explode in the general direction of my mouth, that'd be even better.
    Quote Originally Posted by indiucky View Post
    But to be fair to me the cock was in the down position....

  9. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigtanker View Post
    So let me get this straight. My Anderson lower and PSA upper is like having a Wilson Combat instead of a Glock 17?
    FIFY

  10. #340
    Masticator Trigger Time's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus View Post
    I have witnessed most of these upper tier makers since well before you even knew what an AR was. I can tell you right now from many years of personal experience that I could take a BCM lower and upper and fill it with junk and those "in the know" will never even realize it. I use quality guts in any old upper or lower so long as it's in spec. I have access to enough metrology equipment to make most peoples head spin, up to and including a CMM. I am going to have to call you out on a good deal of what you have written, as anyone that has had as much bad luck as you claim to have had with firearms should probably find a new hobby all together, like cross stitch maybe.
    If you knew what Colt/FN actually asked for their M16s and M4s from the government you would probably realize that the extra few hundred they tack on for Joe Q. Public is a scam.

    I've been around hundreds of ARs in usage. Add in my military service and that would go into the thousands. I've witnessed 3 mechanical failures in all that time. 1 military and 2 civilian. The civilian examples were 1 loose gas key, and 1 case of broken gas key bolts. The military failure was a loose hammer pin.
    i don't know if I was still a twinkle while you were in Saigon or in diapers when you were running guns during Iran contra, or watching CNN while you were fighting sand fleas in the first gulf war? But when I joined pre-911 till '06 and then contracted after that, I already saw more mechanical failures than you did. Then as a fat civilian gun owner I've seen more than that personaly and of others guns. So I just want to tell you to go buy a lottery ticket because you have some good luck!


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