Rambling gunman dead after opening fire at Florida school meeting

[zebov]

That lady with the handbag had balls. Too bad she was not better equipped. Why did he spray paint the wall. What is the point of a double circle with a V in it. Does it symbolize anything?

V for Vendetta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Though I'm not sure how it is applicable here... fighting against the government I guess?

 

[wrigleycub]

So, if one of us were in this situation, calmly sitting off to the side observing (possibly breaking the law ourselves). He raises the pistol at the board member only to hit the floor via well placed .45 ACP discharged out of your deep cover. While this is illegal itself, what would be the ramification of saving lives from a clear and daranged lunitic?

 

[SmileDocHill]

So, if one of us were in this situation, calmly sitting off to the side observing (possibly breaking the law ourselves). He raises the pistol at the board member only to hit the floor via well placed .45 ACP discharged out of your deep cover. While this is illegal itself, what would be the ramification of saving lives from a clear and daranged lunitic?

^^^^Very good question. GO GO INGO brainiacs

 

[malern28us]

That lady with the handbag had balls. Too bad she was not better equipped. Why did he spray paint the wall. What is the point of a double circle with a V in it. Does it symbolize anything?

What about the miniseries from the 80's "V?" Just saying....

 

[John Galt]

Blanks or not, the man displayed a firearm in a threatening manner. This action alone means he himself has initiated a series of consequences that, had anyone in that room not been denied their natural right to self-defense, would have justified as many well placed shots that it would take to neutralize the threat.

To me, this only solidifies and proves the necessity to allow people the natural right to bear arms and be able to defend themselves, as you NEVER know when something like this can happen. Those intent on doing harm will not obey laws, and to disarm innocent, law-abiding citizens is a crime in itself. Google "Virginia Tech" and "Colorado Springs church shooting" and tell me which one had the better outcome and why!

 

[Miner]

I'm not sure It would matter to me. I could not set by and watch a horrific act while having the means to stop it.

 

[dsol]

That woman was brave as hell, but dumb as hell trying to use a purse as a weapon. But she wasnt willing to go down without a fight, gotta hand it to her. And the guy that was taking responsibility for firing crazy dude's wife. Telling him to keep him as a hostage and let the others go. Takes some balls there also.

 

[Lobo]

.

 

[John Galt]

"First of all, he'd hit the ground because of a couple of well placed 9mm or .40 HSTs, not .45, since I understand handgun wound ballistics and have a normal sized wee-wee. " - Lobo

Here we go!

 

[wrigleycub]

Thanks for biting on the .45 as the subject of choice on this thread. I actually carry a small crappy (as some would say) little 35yr old PPK for deep cover situations. I just new the 9mm, 40 S&W, 45 ACP debate would kick off here when I put that out there. I love this website, thanks everyone for all the legal american debate. Oh and John, although I would never complain to TSA about my small pee pee, I know mine is real too.

"First of all, he'd hit the ground because of a couple of well placed 9mm or .40 HSTs, not .45, since I understand handgun wound ballistics and have a normal sized wee-wee. " - Lobo

Here we go!

First of all, he'd hit the ground because of a couple of well placed 9mm or .40 HSTs, not .45, since I understand handgun wound ballistics and have a normal sized wee-wee.

Second of all, the legal ramifications matter not. More than one person has been killed because of a misplaced fear of the legal ramifications, and the failure to use enough force, quickly enough. If someone pulls a gun and starts ranting and pointing it at people in my presence, and I am armed, he is going to find himself with much improved ventilation. Even if my attitude were "screw everyone else," I don't think it's much of a stretch to articulate that he is a clear and present deadly threat to me.

Whatever the court decides later, at least I'd be alive to hear it.

 

[jsharmon7]

Some new details are coming out about the shooter. His wife (blind to red flags apparently) claimed he was an excellent marksman and intentionally missed the board members. He apparently had been arrested previously for hiding in the bushes by his ex-wife's house to confront her and then shooting out her tires after she walked away from him. Not sure if I believe her story about being an excellent marksman, but he may have just been really nervous.

 

[esrice]

Not sure if I believe her story about being an excellent marksman,

Nervous or not, he didn't appear to be very familiar with firearms or the handling of them.

Notice how he kept putting his thumb on the back of the slide while he waved it around-- not smart.

Then there's the ND into the floor in front of him-- oops.

Based on his spray-painting the "V for Vendetta" logo on the wall, and his gun handling performance in the board room, I'd say he learned everything he knows about guns from Hollywood.

 

[bwframe]

So, if one of us were in this situation, calmly sitting off to the side observing (possibly breaking the law ourselves). He raises the pistol at the board member only to hit the floor via well placed .45 ACP discharged out of your deep cover. While this is illegal itself, what would be the ramification of saving lives from a clear and daranged lunitic?

^^^^Very good question. GO GO INGO brainiacs

Better one yet. What if you weren't breaking the law and in the position of the courageous yet naive purse woman?

 

[Vlad the Impaler]

I actually was thinking about what would have been most effective if I found myself unarmed and in the area the lady was standing.
The perp had no idea she was there even when she was winding up with the purse.
I think my choice would have been a full force tackle, hoping that others may pile on when the perp was going to the floor.
If that lady had the muscle to go with the stones she had, a two handed swing with that purse just might have taken that pistol from his hand.
If she was armed, he would have left tissue samples on the boards table and this would have been over quickly.

 

[Hammerhead]

I'm thinking baseball bats and other sports equipment may become regular carry items to meetings such as these.

I'm also thinking that I'm going to look into getting an asp for myself.

I'll still say that the lady with the purse should have grabbed a fire extinguisher and bashed his head in instead of trying to hit the gun.

 

[finity]

I just realized something. Even if it was legal to carry into that board meeting it may not have made one bit of difference.

Based on IN law "the school" can grant permission for people to carry on school property. The people in that room were "the school". They most likely could have legally carried there if they wanted to. None did. that tells me even if it was legal that they probably wouldn't have carried anyway. They probably thought that a "no gun zone" was a nice safe place that no one had to worry about being hurt. Besides, they had an armed school safety officer to protect them.

That's the other thing I don't get. Why did the armed safety officer not end the thing as soon as he could. The BG obviously had his back to him for several minutes before he started shooting. How long would it have taken for one well placed shot? I guess it was more important to ask if he had a "real gun".

Like I said, it probably wouldn't have made any difference even if the school was not a gun-free zone.

Lesson learned: Carry if you can.

It's hard to tell from the video but does anyone know how long after the incident the police were on scene? Or were they already there & just wait to enter until after the shooting stopped? I'm not trying to bash anybody but just wondering if we've really learned ANYTHING AT ALL from other active shooter situations.

Oh yeah. Speaking of "heroes". Did you hear the guy at the far end throw his board-mate under the bus (or in the line of fire) when he pointed to the guy in gray & said "he signed the papers". He might as well have said in the weaseliest, wimpiest voice possible, "he fired her, shoot him not me". To his credit the gray guy did step up to try to save his colleagues but it wasn't doing any good.

 

[rambone]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQjQOlJvMzE

YouTube - School Board Shootout Violence in Florida Panama City [Full Version] Uncut

 

[John Galt]

That's what I love about these threads as they play out, points come up that weren't originally discussed. The new point here, where the hell was the guard? As soon as someone starts spray painting stuff on walls at meetings, shouldn't that send a red flag that something is amiss and maybe some attention be paid to that person? Just highlighting this, as I'm sure a lot of anti-gunners will now scream for disarmament and more security everywhere. However, this is a perfect example of the dangers of mis-placed faith in others to protect you. Oh, and another reason to work on Mozambique's at the range!

 

[Blackhawk2001]

One thing of note in this incident; after the woman hit the gunman with her purse, not a single male board member attempted to help her. Being the people they are, in the profession they've chosen, this doesn't surprise me, but it's a sad commentary on those charged with overseeing public education.

 

[critter592]

Never bring a purse to a gun fight.

Antis will say that people should not be allowed to carry because they are not trained like the police. Oh yah? Well they aren't trained to be hostage negotiators either!! Maybe the guy was just trying to train the gunman's attention so others could move in on him but man that seemed risky also. The only thing that should have met this lunatic was 5 or 6 rounds from 5 or 6 different positions.