Do you tell friends that you are carrying before you enter their home?

[shibumiseeker]

Argue all you want, you lack respect for anyone that you don't ask before you enter their home.

I will argue it. Just because you think it means that doesn't make it so. You may lack respect for someone if you carry in their home when you know it's something that deeply bothers them, but since everyone has all sorts of "rules" they have when they are in their homes it's not incumbent upon a guest to try to ascertain them all beforehand. Respect is a two-way street, and the host-guest relationship is not as simple as you are making it out to be.

 

[kevman65]

I will argue it. Just because you think it means that doesn't make it so. You may lack respect for someone if you carry in their home when you know it's something that deeply bothers them, but since everyone has all sorts of "rules" they have when they are in their homes it's not incumbent upon a guest to try to ascertain them all beforehand. Respect is a two-way street, and the host-guest relationship is not as simple as you are making it out to be.

And you stated the lack of respect right in your rebuttal. If you don't ask then you don't know if it bothers them. If you carry without asking and/or as some of these guys are saying they deep conceal anyway, it is a lack of respect.

As a guest you have a duty to follow the wishes of a host. If the host doesn't want a firearm in their home for whatever reason, you have shown lack of respect.

Everyone wants to talk rights, your rights stop when they infringe on someone's rights. Every homeowner has the right to not allow a firearm on their property. Bill of Rights doesn't make it mandatory for everyone to own firearms, it just denies the government the ability to keep you from owning them. It doesn't give anyone carte blanche to carry onto anyone's property.

Some of you guys think your rights override everyone else and you're wrong.

 

[Kick]

Ok. My original post kinda turned into a rant. Therefore, I am just going to leave it as NO! and Seriously?

 

[Kick]

And you stated the lack of respect right in your rebuttal. If you don't ask then you don't know if it bothers them. If you carry without asking and/or as some of these guys are saying they deep conceal anyway, it is a lack of respect.

As a guest you have a duty to follow the wishes of a host. If the host doesn't want a firearm in their home for whatever reason, you have shown lack of respect.

Everyone wants to talk rights, your rights stop when they infringe on someone's rights. Every homeowner has the right to not allow a firearm on their property. Bill of Rights doesn't make it mandatory for everyone to own firearms, it just denies the government the ability to keep you from owning them. It doesn't give anyone carte blanche to carry onto anyone's property.

Some of you guys think your rights override everyone else and you're wrong.

Okay, most of the people that I have ran into that would not permit firearms in their homes are liberal tree hugging hippies. I am not friends with any liberal tree hugging hippies and I would bet that most of the other members on this board choose not to associate with that type of person.

 

[PeterJLH09]

I'd say its kind of a dilemma. But wait, don't jump on me yet. I'll remove it by the end. Just work with me. According to the constitution, its my right and privilege to carry a weapon. It is also, I believe, a duty as a constitutional supporting citizen. If you don't believe that, that's your opinion. And we all know opinion doesn't alter fact. But that's for a different thread. The point is, you, as a US citizen are entitled to own/carry/conceal a gun. If you have been issued a LICENSE TO CARRY A HANDGUN, or a LTCH, then you have the right to carry a gun anywhere not prohibited. Such as certain government buildings, certain state owned properties, and businesses who's PRIMARY product is serving/selling alcohol, ie, Bars. Your ability to carry on private property is determined by the owner of that property. If he owner doesn't want the safety of law abiding citizens carrying weapons for their own and his well-being, and property, that's totally his call. BUT he MUST CLEARLY MARK HIS BUILDING AS A GUN FREE ZONE WITH AN APPROVED SIGN AT LEAST 6" IN DIAMETER. I have yet, to this day, seen one in Tue window of a house I'm visiting. According to the law, I am not required to inform the owner or employees of an establishment that I am armed. If they ask, sure I'll gladly tell them. Concealed means HIDDEN FROM IMMEDIATE VIEW. By that I am not required to say anything to a homeowner. In fact, I have carried in many peoples home, some who I knew very well, and some whom I had just met, and have never had an issue. Ever.

Now the flip side. I'll keep this shorter. Promise. A house is not a business, so the dynamics change somewhat. The owner has total say on what happens on his property.

Here's how I reconcile the two rights: don't ask, don't tell! He asks, or sees, or makes a comment that makes you feel the need to talk to him, do so! If he kicks you out, he probably wasn't a true friend anyway.

Just my two cents or sense... you get the picture.

 

[lovemachine]

I carry a gun because I believe in the self preservation of life. I don't care if I disrespect my friends/family by carrying into their home. They are disrespecting MY beliefs if they refuse my entry into their home while carrying.
I'm not going to trust my life to anyone but me and GOD.

 

[kevman65]

There is another problem, anyone that doesn't think exactly the way several people on this Board think is automatically a liberal tree hugging hippie. I know several uberconservative straight laced people that are anti-gun. They don't deny the BoR gives everyone the right to own and carry, but they don't want them on their property.

Too many labels thrown about because someone doesn't think exactly the way people want other people to think.

Not every neocon thinks everyone should be packing a firearm, and not every liberal thinks guns should be taken away from everyone.

But there are too many people that think their personal rights overrides everyone else.

 

[shibumiseeker]

And you stated the lack of respect right in your rebuttal. If you don't ask then you don't know if it bothers them. If you carry without asking and/or as some of these guys are saying they deep conceal anyway, it is a lack of respect.

As a guest you have a duty to follow the wishes of a host. If the host doesn't want a firearm in their home for whatever reason, you have shown lack of respect.

Everyone wants to talk rights, your rights stop when they infringe on someone's rights. Every homeowner has the right to not allow a firearm on their property. Bill of Rights doesn't make it mandatory for everyone to own firearms, it just denies the government the ability to keep you from owning them. It doesn't give anyone carte blanche to carry onto anyone's property.

Some of you guys think your rights override everyone else and you're wrong.

Oh please, that's more than a little hyperbole. You're extrapolating from "don't ask if it's something that bothers a host" to "deep concealment because you KNOW a host doesn't want a gun in their house". That's quite a leap right there. Most of us stated that they would either respect the expressed wishes of a host by not carrying in their home or by taking it back out to the car, or that we simply wouldn't enter their homes in the first place.

And now we're violating their rights because you think it shows lack of respect to ask? Hardly. You'll need to do better than that if you want to press your point.

 

[Kick]

...If he kicks you out, he probably wasn't a true friend anyway...

See, in a round about way, PeterJLH09 agrees.

 

[shibumiseeker]

There is another problem, anyone that doesn't think exactly the way several people on this Board think is automatically a liberal tree hugging hippie. I know several uberconservative straight laced people that are anti-gun. They don't deny the BoR gives everyone the right to own and carry, but they don't want them on their property.

Too many labels thrown about because someone doesn't think exactly the way people want other people to think.

Not every neocon thinks everyone should be packing a firearm, and not every liberal thinks guns should be taken away from everyone.

Broad brush you've got there... There's a vocal minority that believes this, but it ain't so for everyone here.

 

[Kick]

There is another problem, anyone that doesn't think exactly the way several people on this Board think is automatically a liberal tree hugging hippie. I know several uberconservative straight laced people that are anti-gun. They don't deny the BoR gives everyone the right to own and carry, but they don't want them on their property.

Too many labels thrown about because someone doesn't think exactly the way people want other people to think.

Not every neocon thinks everyone should be packing a firearm, and not every liberal thinks guns should be taken away from everyone.

But there are too many people that think their personal rights overrides everyone else.

If you couldn't see that the phrase "liberal tree hugging hippie" was intended to be funny, well, you just take the internet entirely too seriously.

It was a shorter way of saying that usually friendships are formed based on common interests. The 2nd Amendment is something that I feel very strongly about. Any of my friends will be able to tell you that. I was just stating that FOR THE MOST PART, I know members on this board feel the same way.

The chances of one of us being friends with someone, whose system of beliefs is such that a firearm would not be permitted in their home, is highly unlikely.....

See how much shorter "liberal tree hugging hippie" was....

 

[kevman65]

Here is the dilemma, the BoR covers what the government can or can't do. Private property is not covered, the whole sign business is BS. Most people don't want to prosecute, its not that they can't. If you are legally able to own and carry a firearm most businesses and most private individuals will ask you to leave, if you don't they will threaten a trespass cite and that gets most people moving.

You may have no legal obligation to notify a homeowner you are carrying, but you have a moral obligation if you do not know for certain that they know you are carrying and that they approve. Deep conceal doesn't excuse you from asking the homeowner if they have a problem with a handgun in their house.

Your personal rights stop at the property line and the homeowners personal rights kick in.

 

[Kick]

Okay. As I previously stated, I would not choose to be friends with anyone who does not want a firearm in their home. With that being said, if my wife and I were at one of her co-workers homes for some function, I would not tell the host that I was armed. If it was discovered that I was armed and my firearm was not welcome in their home, I would leave.

I would be polite and explain that I have a policy issued by my employer that addresses firearms safety on and off duty. One of the provisions of that policy is that firearms must always be stored in a secure area. It details that a vehicle is not secure (even if there is a safe or lock box in the vehicle). I would then tell them I am sorry for bringing a firearm into their home.

If my wife and I were invited there in the future, I would just stay home.

 

[kevman65]

Okay, most of the people that I have ran into that would not permit firearms in their homes are liberal tree hugging hippies. I am not friends with any liberal tree hugging hippies and I would bet that most of the other members on this board choose not to associate with that type of person.

Here is your original post, that you now say is a jest.

If you couldn't see that the phrase "liberal tree hugging hippie" was intended to be funny, well, you just take the internet entirely too seriously.

It was a shorter way of saying that usually friendships are formed based on common interests. The 2nd Amendment is something that I feel very strongly about. Any of my friends will be able to tell you that. I was just stating that FOR THE MOST PART, I know members on this board feel the same way.

The chances of one of us being friends with someone, whose system of beliefs is such that a firearm would not be permitted in their home, is highly unlikely.....

See how much shorter "liberal tree hugging hippie" was....

My reply points out that there are anti-gun people in both categories and there are pro-gun in both categories. If you read this Board as you say, you see that there are quite a few gun toting liberals on this Board. You may already be friends with some of those liberals but not think of them that way because they carry a gun. Ownership of a firearm doesn't guarantee one is conservative, lack of ownership doesn't guarantee one is a liberal.

Part of the problem with how things are going on this rock we call home, everyone has to label everyone else and make it us versus them.

 

[shibumiseeker]

You may have no legal obligation to notify a homeowner you are carrying, but you have a moral obligation if you do not know for certain that they know you are carrying and that they approve. Deep conceal doesn't excuse you from asking the homeowner if they have a problem with a handgun in their house.

And here's where I'll disagree again. You are still simplifying the host-guest relationship, and both Judith Martin and Abigail VanBuren would chide you for doing so. There's a lot of things a host may disapprove of, but they are being a bad host if they expect a guest to know all of the rules they have arbitrarily set up in advance. There are some social conventions that are widely agreed upon, but whether one carries a weapon is not among them. Just because in YOUR house it's a deep moral offense if I eat with my left hand, does not mean that I should be expected to know this in advance, nor is it something that a guest should inquire about beforehand. That relationship changes once a guest is made aware of a house rule, but it is not incumbent upon the guest to know them all in advance.

I agree with you that carrying a weapon into the home of someone who has made it clear that they do not want them in their home is showing a lack of respect, but I disagree with your assertion not asking in advance shows a lack of respect. On the same token, a host who castigates a guest for inadvertently breaking a house rule before the guest has been appraised of them is showing a lack of respect for the guest.

Like I said, the host-guest relationship is not as simple as you've made it out to be.

 

[jeremy]

Most of my Family and Friends just take it for granted that I have Knives or Firearms in my possession...

 

[Kick]

Here is your original post, that you now say is a jest.

My reply points out that there are anti-gun people in both categories and there are pro-gun in both categories. If you read this Board as you say, you see that there are quite a few gun toting liberals on this Board. You may already be friends with some of those liberals but not think of them that way because they carry a gun. Ownership of a firearm doesn't guarantee one is conservative, lack of ownership doesn't guarantee one is a liberal.

Part of the problem with how things are going on this rock we call home, everyone has to label everyone else and make it us versus them.

Well THANK YOU for the lesson! What ever would I do with out you. Look, now you are "that you now say is jest" aka you are backing down OR you are lying....

Most of us are well aware that there are people on this board from everywhere. We have different races, sexes, ages, religions, political beliefs, value systems, and some of us even states of residency..... but, don't let me stop you!

PREACH ON!!!!!!

 

[PeterJLH09]

I do ager that its my right to carry a gun. It's my person, its on me, I'm in complete control of my weapon at all times. I think that the argument of disrespect is a little far fetched. In fact, the lack of respect is in assuming that the homeowner will have a problem. Essentially, you are claiming that he is stupid. I would be offended if, for no reason, a guest pulled me aside and asked if I was comfortable whith them having a gun in my house. That shows disrespect. I would view that a condescending. And yes, if someone asked me to leave their house because I was exercising my right as a citizen, I would no longer count that individual as a friend. That is a tread on my rights. If he were to see the gun, or make a comment that would compelling me to reveal that I carry, I would gladly inform him, and respect his wishes. But to say that I need to anticipate the feelings and political beliefs of a host is beyond reasonable. Besides if you don't really know where they stand on the issue, or even general where their political allegiances lie, then what does hat say for you as a friend?

 

[kevman65]

And here's where I'll disagree again. You are still simplifying the host-guest relationship, and both Judith Martin and Abigail VanBuren would chide you for doing so. There's a lot of things a host may disapprove of, but they are being a bad host if they expect a guest to know all of the rules they have arbitrarily set up in advance. There are some social conventions that are widely agreed upon, but whether one carries a weapon is not among them. Just because in YOUR house it's a deep moral offense if I eat with my left hand, does not mean that I should be expected to know this in advance, nor is it something that a guest should inquire about beforehand. That relationship changes once a guest is made aware of a house rule, but it is not incumbent upon the guest to know them all in advance.

I agree with you that carrying a weapon into the home of someone who has made it clear that they do not want them in their home is showing a lack of respect, but I disagree with your assertion not asking in advance shows a lack of respect. On the same token, a host who castigates a guest for inadvertently breaking a house rule before the guest has been appraised of them is showing a lack of respect for the guest.

Like I said, the host-guest relationship is not as simple as you've made it out to be.

I see, you aren't going to ask, but if you get outed the host is wrong for asking you to remove the firearm or leave.


Nice way to paint it so you win every time. Normal manners while a guest is one thing, when you go into a home and you don't positively know they will allow it, at that point it falls onto you to ask. Carrying a firearm into a personal residence doesn't fall into any normal rule of etiquette.

If you know you're allowed then no need to ask. If you even question whether you're permitted and just deep conceal and don't ask, you have broken the trust of the host. If you know for a fact they don't allow and you deep conceal, you show complete disrespect for them and their rights as a property owner.

To the OP, you were wanting everyone to confirm your beliefs on this scenario, you didn't expect a dissenting opinion and got defensive when you got one. Your company rules have nothing to do with someone's personal property. Your company can't override a property owners rights.


Once again, if I don't have explicit permission, I ask first. At that point I can decide if I don't want to attend, or lock the firearm up in my vehicle.
This shows respect to the host, and allows me choices without a confrontation.

 

[kevman65]

Well THANK YOU for the lesson! What ever would I do with out you. Look, now you are "that you now say is jest" aka you are backing down OR you are lying....

Most of us are well aware that there are people on this board from everywhere. We have different races, sexes, ages, religions, political beliefs, value systems, and some of us even states of residency..... but, don't let me stop you!

PREACH ON!!!!!!

I believe there is some semi-rule about purple being the color of sarcasm, if your original post was meant as sarcasm I suggest you learn the way to make that text purple. Otherwise people will take your typed word as the way it is written. Don't jump down my throat if you mean it as jest, but don't make it obvious.

Also don't ask a question then get pissy when you get an opinion not of your way of thinking.