Breaking: Per SCOTUS, Same-Sex Marriage is now law of the land.

[MisterChester]

Let's leave the universe out of it for a minute. How would the world be different if God didn't exist?

Depends on what God you're talking about.

 

[deal me in]

I disagree with this. The Bible often compares our relationship with God as the parent/child relationships that we are more familiar with.

Does a child always understand the actions of the parent? Can they fully understand it? Of course not.

Do you still have to be a good parent, even when your child can not understand it? Absolutely.

A child's perspective is microscopic compared to that of an adult. Even a teenager lacks the worldly experience to fully comprehend the rules and restrictions set forth by his or her parents. Nevertheless, we teach them to obey first, understand later. My son had no idea why he wasn't allowed to run across the road. He couldn't yet comprehend the damage that could be caused to his body by an automobile, and he lacked the language skills for me to explain it to him. I still had to discipline him when he tried to do it.

This is not to say that 'discipline' is the reason for every action of God that seems unfair to us. That is certainly not true. I am simply presenting examples that demonstrate the difficulties of using a human perspective to understand the actions of a God with an infinite perspective. A God who exists outside of time, who created everything that we see and everything that we don't see. A God who knows the infinite ripple effect of every event that takes place.

I think it is downright silly to assume that a God capable of all of this is a God who owes us an explanation for anything, or that we could understand that explanation should it be provided.

I understand your arguments. We'll have to agree to disagree. The reason He owes me an explanation is that he demands my love and worship or else he will punish me forever. I don't ascribe the characteristic of "good" to God just because he created the universe. If He wants me to worship Him, then He must be worthy of my worship. Condemning me for the "crime" of being born is not a good start.

 

[indiucky]

If you're going to demand my obedience and worship it's not fair to be "too complicated" for me to understand.

Says every child to their parent......



Your opinion is always welcome and is a part of a civil discussion...I don't know how "rare" it is for folks to change their minds....I love Atheists (Except Dawkins...He just comes across like a bulbous head of a male organ) and spent many years in their camp....If it was so rare for folks to "change their minds" the phrases "Born Again", "Evangelical", or "Blind but now I see" would not be a common part of our language.....

I don't have the kind of Faith it takes to be an Atheist anymore.....Richard Dawkins even goes into "Ancient Aliens" territory when trying to explain the creation of life on our planet.......When you are having to "go there" to explain how life on earth started are you really that smart a guy with all of the answers????

But if you are an Atheist I do admire your Faith in randomness and luck....I bet your Derby Picks are the bomb!!!!

 

[deal me in]

Depends on what God you're talking about.

You're right, I should have been more specific. This question is directed to Christians and is referring to the God of the Bible.

How would the world be different if God didn't exist?

 

[Rookie]

You're right, I should have been more specific. This question is directed to Christians and is referring to the God of the Bible.

How would the world be different if God didn't exist?

I answered that for you...

 

[steveh_131]

Have you read it?

Of course, I just quoted it.

Have you read any of the critical commentaries on it....say Jung's "Answer to Job"?

No, I haven't read that. Care to summarize or make an argument?

Condemning me for the "crime" of being born is not a good start.

I think this is a misunderstanding. You are condemned by your own sins. Choices that you made.

 

[srad]

Two adults getting married has no real effect on the daily lives of anyone other than than those two adults. I have never understood why a disinterested third party would have any opinion about it.

'Cept bakers, photographers, and hypothetical-pizza catering makers; LOTS of fallout with respect to formerly disinterested individuals who now find themselves in danger of getting their pockets picked (to paraphrase Jefferson). Not sure if it's been brought up but the most common sense approach to me is if someone is refused service because they are gay, well that's a no-no... but if a business doesn't care to contract business for an EVENT (i.e. wedding) it should be within their rights to do so. EVENTS do not have civil liberties.

Hypothetically, if a Japanese guy walks into my bakery and asks for a muffin I cannot refuse service. But if he comes in and asks for a cake to celebrate the bombing of Pearl Harbor I should be able to tell him to go pound sand.

 

[MisterChester]

I answered that for you...

Well, how do you know that?

 

[deal me in]

Says every child to their parent......



Your opinion is always welcome and is a part of a civil discussion...I don't know how "rare" it is for folks to change their minds....I love Atheists (Except Dawkins...He just comes across like a bulbous head of a male organ) and spent many years in their camp....If it was so rare for folks to "change their minds" the phrases "Born Again", "Evangelical", or "Blind but now I see" would not be a common part of our language.....

I don't have the kind of Faith it takes to be an Atheist anymore.....Richard Dawkins even goes into "Ancient Aliens" territory when trying to explain the creation of life on our planet...I mean come on....When you are having to "go there" to explain how life on earth started are you really that smart a guy with all of the answers????

But if you are an Atheist I do admire your Faith in randomness and luck....I bet your Derby Picks are the bomb!!!!

The Ancient Aliens quote needs to be put into context. When asked about intelligent design, Dawkins conceded that life being seeded by ancient aliens was a possible method of "intelligent design". He didn't endorse it as fact. Faith in randomness and luck isn't required. Randomness is supported by evidence and luck is just variance over a small sample size.

 

[Rookie]

Well, how do you know that?

It's clearly stated in Genesis.

 

[deal me in]

Of course, I just quoted it.



No, I haven't read that. Care to summarize or make an argument?



I think this is a misunderstanding. You are condemned by your own sins. Choices that you made.

Everyone sins so everyone is condemned at birth. Creating me as a sinner and then demanding that I seek His forgiveness is a characteristic of a petty God. Yeah, I know, I know, I can't possibly understand Him so I shouldn't question. This is always going to be a circular argument?

 

[MisterChester]

It's clearly stated in Genesis.

Who wrote it? How did they prove what they wrote is true? Who watched God create it?

 

[Dean C.]

Who wrote it? How did they prove what they wrote is true? Who watched God create it?

Someone please get MisterChester for me!
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to MisterChester again.

 

[Rookie]

Who wrote it? How did they prove what they wrote is true? Who watched God create it?

Multiple people wrote it. Most book of the Bible are eye witness accounts by the author of that book. No human watched God create the earth.

 

[deal me in]

I answered that for you...

Not really, you made an evidence based claim with little evidence. I'm asking how we can tell the difference between a universe (specifically our little part of it) created by the Christian God and one that wasn't.

 

[MisterChester]

Multiple people wrote it. Most book of the Bible are eye witness accounts by the author of that book. No human watched God create the earth.

So if no one saw it happen, there are no eyewitness accounts to it. How can we prove the credibility of the people who witnessed what they claim to see?

 

[Rookie]

Not really, you made an evidence based claim with little evidence. I'm asking how we can tell the difference between a universe (specifically our little part of it) created by the Christian God and one that wasn't.

I answered based on my belief that there is a God, and that He created the earth. If He didn't create the earth, then it wouldn't exist.

 

[Rookie]

So if no one saw it happen, there are no eyewitness accounts to it. How can we prove the credibility of the people who witnessed what they claim to see?

That's why I stated most books (not all) were eye witness accounts.

 

[Lowe0]

Well, we all are, so He is.

James 2:10 KJV
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point , he is guilty of all.

John 8:34 KJV
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

James 1:14-15 KJV
[14] But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. [15] Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Romans 5:12 KJV
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Which brings us right back around to my first question: which specific act am I being held responsible for, and why does it merit infinite suffering?

 

[ArcadiaGP]

This discussion seems like it'd fit better in the "Civil Discussion: Christianity" or even "General Religion" threads... /shrug