Last time I looked the person that wins the IDPA or the USPSA match is the one that shoots fastest AND accurate.
Minor power factor scoring (USPSA 125 pf and below) makes the two games more similar, C's and D's (-1, -3) hurt.
Last time I looked the person that wins the IDPA or the USPSA match is the one that shoots fastest AND accurate.
I shoot both as well - the ones who bash either, don't.
The animosity from the IDPA side existed since before the sport was created. I was around and participating in email lists when IDPA was just a concept and about to become a reality. There were a lot of sour grapes among some of the creators of the sport and from the beginning, IDPA was "not IPSC." I wish I had saved some of the discussions, but a lot of it boiled down to doing things differently than USPSA solely because USPSA did it, not because it had any other reason.
The animosity from the IDPA side existed since before the sport was created. I was around and participating in email lists when IDPA was just a concept and about to become a reality hole in cardboard. There were a lot of sour grapes among some of the creators of the sport and from the beginning, IDPA was "not IPSC." I wish I had saved some of the discussions, but a lot of it boiled down to doing things differently than USPSA solely because USPSA did it, not because it had any other reason.
Thanks I was unaware of this, just seems a shame since they ate Jim star both games tha involve holes in cardboard. Can't we all just have some fun.
This thread is an example of why I don't participate in this kind of competition. Waaaay too complicated, and too much nit-picking on esoteric minute details.
Eh, kind of a throwing out the baby with the bath water kind of thing... Practical shooting is a hoot. Avoid these threads online and you'll avoid 90% of the nit picking.
And figure out who the hard core competitors are and avoid their squads. I'll be the first to call my own foul. Heck, I can think of 3x Ive called attention to a nick on a no shoot of mine that the RO missed. But nothing is more annoying than some squadmate that comes racing up from the peanut gallery waving his arms making a big deal about how the shooter messed it up and the RO cant be trusted to catch the foul. (and especially annoying when you realize he thinks he is above pasting and hasnt gotten up off his a** except to shoot or move to the next bay)
Youve described a##holes, not hardcore competitors.
That's why you just go, shoot, and STFU. I've not been active in either for years, because of the rooolz, and the playaz! I do go, sign up, and shoot, just to keep up with the Jones', but it ain't life or death for me, just another form of training.
I second that motion. I love shooting all types, love it even more when I got to do it with my Dad and now with my sons. Practical Pistol, IDPA, Cowboy, just shot my first 3 gun match as well. I figure as long as I am 1. Safe 2. Friendly 3. Pitch in to help I can go shoot about anywhere and be accepted. I don't shoot any of them to win the Caddy, I do my best and enjoy.
Now the next thing we all need to do is bring a relative or friend along and get them involved. The more shooters the better!
And figure out who the hard core competitors are and avoid their squads. I'll be the first to call my own foul. Heck, I can think of 3x Ive called attention to a nick on a no shoot of mine that the RO missed. But nothing is more annoying than some squadmate that comes racing up from the peanut gallery waving his arms making a big deal about how the shooter messed it up and the RO cant be trusted to catch the foul. (and especially annoying when you realize he thinks he is above pasting and hasnt gotten up off his a** except to shoot or move to the next bay)
Youve described a##holes, not hardcore competitors.
Well, sometimes they are one and the same. Luckily I can count the guys on one hand I shoot with like that. (not surprisingly, the biggest one was banned from here and reminds me when he sees my hat how many of y'all are basement dwellers that dont even shoot. )
Too many rules? Yes there are some rules but I know lots of shooters and some of them have been shooting 20+ years that don't know but a few of the rules and have been getting along fine.
I do the new shooters meeting for a couple of the clubs down in the southern part of the state and I cover all the rules you need to shoot a match in 15 minutes. 75% of those rules are SAFETY rules that are common sense and range specific.
There are lots of rules that apply to the matches but you don't need to worry about them to start out and have fun. I have been a RO for almost 25 years and I don't know every rule in the book and I don't care about knowing them all. There are several rules that can be interpreted a couple of ways and different RO's will have different takes on them. NONE of that matters to just shoot and have fun and learn the game. (except the Safety rules)
There are jerks and a##holes in every aspect of life. If you run into one on the range at a competition you have run into the rare one in our sport. Just because a person is serious(hardcore) about a shooting sport doesn't qualify them as one of those. In fact there would be much to learn from a "hardcore competitor". Squading with them can be a learning experience and if you see them do something during a run that you don't understand, give them a couple of minutes after the run and ask them why they did that. Most all of them will share info with you without hesitation. It's fascinating to hang back and listen to some of the shooters discussing the best way to shoot a stage during the walk thru. They compare notes and strategies with each other. Much can be learned here.
Many reasons/excuses to not shoot competition but too many rules is silly and you are missing out on the fun. If you go to a match and try it and you get a penalty and don't know why just ask someone and they will explain it. You won't be the first one to have gotten a penalty or been DQ'ed for breaking a safety rule. Learn from it and remember have fun.
As for the equipment race thing that is not a USPSA/IDPA thing that is a shooter thing.
There are lots of divisions out there where a stock out of the box gun can win or do well in. Single Stack, Production, Revolver, even limited with a stock hi cap gun.
No one is making you have a open gun or high dollar limited gun unless you want one. I know lots of shooters that have heavily modified guns that never shoot competition. Some just like to push the edge equipment wise but that is for sure not required to shoot competition.
Bosshoss, Respectfully I disagree about your equipment race comparison. In my experience of shooting matches the equipment race comes where the production division is not. Yes one can shoot their stock Glock but they will only do it for practice (which is fine) but if you look at the state, region or nationals even as phenomenal shooters as the top shooters are their guns are far from production.
No problem disagreeing. I stand by my statement though as I have seen many Grand Masters and Masters shooting Glocks or other guns that have very little done to them. I know lots of shooters with $5000+ open guns or $3000 limited guns that still shoot in the lower classes. Better equipment didn't advance their finishes any. I guess I'm still it's the Indian and not the arrow kind of guy. IMO you can't buy skills you have to work for them.
I still say this is supposed to be fun and you don't need the latest and greatest blaster to have fun.(Especially just starting out)
That's one thing I give kudos to IDOA for. Very little mods are done compared to USPSA production nill cuts and everything else.
I have seen some pretty exotic and expensive IDPA guns.
And on revolvers it is an equipment race because while IPSC doesn't allow 8 shot revolvers in the world body (world shoot) o ly 6 shot, USPSA opened up 8 shot revolvers so a revolver shooter like myself can not compete with a 625 to a 929 8 shot for a whole match.
I hate to bust your bubble here but 8 shot guns, scored minor are IPSC legal now.
I had several 625's when the rule change happened and still have my main one that I shot in competition and it is now my dry fire gun. Sold rest of them. BTW USPSA isn't the only one that makes rule changes that obsoletes a gun. I know a few people that quit IDPA over the 4" barrel rule in revolver making their 5" guns illegal.
It's also funny the world body in IPSC overseas at the world shoot allow production class to have 15 rounds I. Mags but good ole USPSA restricts production in the states to 10 rounds. So how is that ok to not do but opening up revolvers to more rounds is?
I don't know what the reasoning for the 10 vs 15 rounds is but I do know that 10 round production in USPSA is one of the biggest divisions(very close to or exceeding limited) in USPSA. They should leave it alone as it is working now.
My point is there really is an equipment race in USPSA IPSC and some of their rules along with competitors drive it. And some have been perterbed enough to not shoot a match over it.
I shoot matches to have fun and be with my friends but I'm as competitive as anyone. I have many excuses like they are half my age or not as fat as I am. While I can lose weight I can't get younger or get my eyesight back. I'm not going to quit because the young skinny guys have a competitive advantage over me. Why would the equipment make any difference?
Again just Respectfully discussing what I have observed.
Respectfully I disagree about your equipment race comparison. In my experience of shooting matches the equipment race comes where the production division is not. Yes one can shoot their stock Glock but they will only do it for practice (which is fine) but if you look at the state, region or nationals even as phenomenal shooters as the top shooters are their guns are far from production.
That's one thing I give kudos to IDOA for. Very little mods are done compared to USPSA production nill cuts and everything else.
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My point is there really is an equipment race in USPSA IPSC and some of their rules along with competitors drive it. And some have been perterbed enough to not shoot a match over it.