Indianapolis to pursue legal action against opioid manufacturers

[warthog]

May all who think this is a good idea suffer from lifelong horrible pain.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Well I think there was some intentional misleading done regarding addiction potential. But duh, they're narcotics...

Sure. But most of us trust our doctors to have our best interest in mind and don't really know that much about the meds. It's better these days with so much exposure, the Internet, etc. I remember getting Loritabs after having my toe nails removed. The second time I decided I'd rather deal with the pain than the nausea and the doc really wanted me to get the prescription. Maybe he thought I didn't realize what I was getting into, maybe he had a sales quota. The third time (and last time, they poured acid in the nail beds) was by a military doc and they didn't mind at all I didn't want meds.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Prohibition 2.0.

This is absolute absurdity at its worst. I have a neck and back injury that makes driving more than a few miles torturous, tried absolutely every pain management option out there.
Doctors just straight up tell me that I have to live in pain because the government no longer allows them to give me anything that would work for me. The alternative is being unable to move my neck or back more than a few degrees, which at my age I'm not ready to deal with.

Can't even experiment with CBD in this state thanks to the laws.

Why not, you know, send criminals to jail instead of punish me for something that's no fault of my own?

Excellent point. Making a return to punishing the guilty rather than everyone else would be a fantastic idea.

Tombs, you have at least admit there's a massive problem with opioid pain pills in our country, right? How would you propose dealing with it?

I don't know about Tombs, but I would tell you that it's not my circus and not my monkeys, therefore not my problem.

May all who think this is a good idea suffer from lifelong horrible pain.

Agreed. There is also a certain pharmacist who would be very well advised not to walk across the street while I am driving or he could end up spending the rest of his life in pain. The son of a b*tch acted like he was going to single-handedly win the war on drugs by giving me a hard time over filling my prescriptions which at the amount allowed by the instruction would only last 30 hours. Also gave me a really nasty time about filling two of the same thing. Well, what the paper said and what the bottle I already had said were two different things. It turned out they were actually the same, but as far as I am concerned, if it says something different, it is different. The hell of it is that this stemmed from surgery on my face, so it isn't like there was any question about faking symptoms!

 

[Spear Dane]

I have my fingers crossed that my firm gets a call in the next day or two....

I'll put it this way:

[video=youtube;AJXKVOxqkWM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJXKVOxqkWM[/video]

There is NOTHING magnificent about this. Damn I loath lawyers. Leaches. All of you. What's going to happen is there will be lawsuits all over, every polity in the country will smell money and pile on. Some companies will be driven out of business, some money will change hands, the prices of opioids will skyrocket and the people that really legitimately need them will not be able to get them.

 

[actaeon277]

... Making a return to punishing the guilty rather than everyone else would be a fantastic idea.

...

That's just crazy talk.

 

[IndyDave1776]

That's just crazy talk.

I know, but there is always wishful thinking!

There is NOTHING magnificent about this. Damn I loath lawyers. Leaches. All of you. What's going to happen is there will be lawsuits all over, every polity in the country will smell money and pile on. Some companies will be driven out of business, some money will change hands, the prices of opioids will skyrocket and the people that really legitimately need them will not be able to get them.

You do realize that the call he anticipates will be for defense from this nonsense, not an anticipation of representing the wayward polities you mention?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

There is NOTHING magnificent about this. Damn I loath lawyers. Leaches. All of you. What's going to happen is there will be lawsuits all over, every polity in the country will smell money and pile on. Some companies will be driven out of business, some money will change hands, the prices of opioids will skyrocket and the people that really legitimately need them will not be able to get them.

Well, that cats out of the bag. And has been for at least a decade. I'm just surprised they haven't had a settlement that prevents future lawsuits like tobacco companies entered in to.

Let's not forget that executives of Purdue Pharma admitted to misleading doctors, regulators, and patients on the addictiveness and OxyContin back in '07 when they plead guilty to criminal charges related to the same. They also admitted to pushing non-approved uses:

"Nearly six years and longer ago, some employees made, or told other employees to make, certain statements about OxyContin to some health care professionals that were inconsistent with the F.D.A.-approved prescribing information for OxyContin and the express warnings it contained about risks associated with the medicine. The statements also violated written company policies requiring adherence to the prescribing information."

Federal officials said that internal Purdue Pharma documents show that company officials recognized even before the drug was marketed that they would face stiff resistance from doctors who were concerned about the potential of a high-powered narcotic like OxyContin to be abused by patients or cause addiction.

As a result, company officials developed a fraudulent marketing campaign designed to promote OxyContin as a time-released drug that was less prone to such problems.

Among other things, company sales officials were allowed to draw their own fake scientific charts, which they then distributed to doctors, to support that misleading abuse-related claim, federal officials said.

And that's what they admitted to in court back in the '07 settlement with the Feds. Take a look at this: http://www.latimes.com/projects/oxycontin-part1/ and maybe you'll change your mind a bit on the merits of these suits. The drug companies wanted to expand the market, and boy did they, even more than they intended. With a dose of fraud and cooking the studies as well.

There are a frivolous lawsuits, but when fraud and...what we will charitably call aggressive marketing and skirting of regulations, leads to the huge consumption of public resources I don't think it's beyond the pale for those that started the mess to have a roll in cleaning it up.

 

[T.Lex]

'Tis been awhile since a good INGO rant against all lawyers.

We were probably overdue.

 

[Woobie]

There is NOTHING magnificent about this. Damn I loath lawyers. Leaches. All of you. What's going to happen is there will be lawsuits all over, every polity in the country will smell money and pile on. Some companies will be driven out of business, some money will change hands, the prices of opioids will skyrocket and the people that really legitimately need them will not be able to get them.

What should be done? Let taxpayers keep soaking up the bill foisted upon them through the fraud committed by big pharma?

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

'Tis been awhile since a good INGO rant against all lawyers.

We were probably overdue.

Easy to do till life happens and you need one .

 

[HoughMade]

There is NOTHING magnificent about this. Damn I loath lawyers. Leaches. All of you. What's going to happen is there will be lawsuits all over, every polity in the country will smell money and pile on. Some companies will be driven out of business, some money will change hands, the prices of opioids will skyrocket and the people that really legitimately need them will not be able to get them.

...and my kids will graduate from college debt free. Oh yes, there is an upside.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

'Tis been awhile since a good INGO rant against all lawyers.

We were probably overdue.

Right. It's the 97% that give the rest a bad name.

Q: How many lawyer jokes are there?
A: Only three. The rest are true stories.

I'll be here all week, try the veal and don't forget to tip your wait staff!

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

Lastly, at last night's rather lengthy ER visit (F-I-L is now an inpatient), I had the opportunity to do something I don't often get to do since my retirement: watch the wide variety of people who present themselves to the emergency department. Many of the folks there were visibly ill or injured or clearly distressed; others, well, their issues were not so apparent. Also, it is NOT necessary for all four generations of the extended family and the pet, not service, dog on a leash to accompany mee-maw and pe-paw to the ER.

I had a similar experience last year with my own FIL. While we in the ER, there were several over-dose patients brought in. One guy raised quit a fuss when the narcan did it's work.

One other thing. It may not be necessary for the entire family to come in with mee-maw or pe-paw to the ER, but just know that if you send them alone, mee-maw or pe-paw might end up ignored on a gurney in the hallway for hours.

 

[bwframe]

Good to see where our money goes...

 

[hoosierdoc]

Had a lady insult me repeatedly and storm out because I Didn't give her narcotics for her headache. She was in a pain contract already and had missing pills at recent count. Had been to all the specialty headache clinics in the nation. "Allergic" to most therapies except narcotics, and the rest of the options "don't work". She got up and walked out of the ER when I said I had nothing left to offer since we don't use narcotics for migraines.

this is the problem with narcotics. She says it's the only thing that works. Literature says narcotics don't work and cause rebound headaches in a nasty cycle. In her mind I'm an evil jerk. "I've met doctors like YOU before" she said quite angrily.

I was not upset with her, was not demeaning. I tried to find meds we could use that were non-narcotic. She wasn't into it.

Should I have just given her what she wanted?

 

[T.Lex]

Had a lady insult me repeatedly and storm out because I Didn't give her narcotics for her headache. She was in a pain contract already and had missing pills at recent count. Had been to all the specialty headache clinics in the nation. "Allergic" to most therapies except narcotics, and the rest of the options "don't work". She got up and walked out of the ER when I said I had nothing left to offer since we don't use narcotics for migraines.

this is the problem with narcotics. She says it's the only thing that works. Literature says narcotics don't work and cause rebound headaches in a nasty cycle. In her mind I'm an evil jerk. "I've met doctors like YOU before" she said quite angrily.

I was not upset with her, was not demeaning. I tried to find meds we could use that were non-narcotic. She wasn't into it.

Should I have just given her what she wanted?

Was she hot?

 

[MarkC]

I had a similar experience last year with my own FIL. While we in the ER, there were several over-dose patients brought in. One guy raised quit a fuss when the narcan did it's work.

One other thing. It may not be necessary for the entire family to come in with mee-maw or pe-paw to the ER, but just know that if you send them alone, mee-maw or pe-paw might end up ignored on a gurney in the hallway for hours.

I have to agree with you completely about the need for an advocate. My wife, our son, and I were at dinner when all this happened, so we drove over to the ER. As there were so many of us (F-I-L, M-I-L, me, the Mrs, and the son) the wife and mother-in-law stayed with him and advocated for him until he was in a room. The son and I stayed in the large outside waiting room until he was settled.

The danger of being overlooked and left in a hallway is entirely why a zealous and firm but professional advocate for the patient is important. Fortunately, my wife was available, as the patient was too sick to understand what was going on and his wife (my M-I-L) too stressed to be at her best. BTW, he's still admitted with a serious infection.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

I have to agree with you completely about the need for an advocate. My wife, our son, and I were at dinner when all this happened, so we drove over to the ER. As there were so many of us (F-I-L, M-I-L, me, the Mrs, and the son) the wife and mother-in-law stayed with him and advocated for him until he was in a room. The son and I stayed in the large outside waiting room until he was settled.

The danger of being overlooked and left in a hallway is entirely why a zealous and firm but professional advocate for the patient is important. Fortunately, my wife was available, as the patient was too sick to understand what was going on and his wife (my M-I-L) too stressed to be at her best. BTW, he's still admitted with a serious infection.

My FIL walked in for outpatient hernia surgery, and was sent home with a catheter, and I took him to the ER two days later at the recommendation of the surgeon. After spending 12 hours in the ER, he went to ICU, where he died two days later. I was there for most of it all and the one thing I take from all of the insults that good man had to suffer, is that just about every one of the doctors, nurses, and staff were wonderful, professional people who were trying to do the best job they can in the conditions that they have to work in. And, sometimes those conditions appear to totally suck.

Edit: The night before he died, my FIL was acting uncomfortable and restless and the nurse and doctor were trying to ask him if he was having pain, to which he nodded yes. When they asked if he wanted something for the pain, he shook his head no, and then said in a whisper "You get addicted to that stuff".

 

[MarkC]

When they asked if he wanted something for the pain, he shook his head no, and then said in a whisper "You get addicted to that stuff".

A colleague and good friend of mine had his mother harping on him to NEVER take any narcotic for pain relief, because she was worried about addiction. His injury: HE WAS SHOT, with one round passing through his side and another blowing out his elbow. The attitudes like your FIL's are widespread and persistent, and do not help.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Was she hot?

no, I think her temp was around 98.3, but she normally runs 97.4 so that's a fever for her. You show me the attractive narcotic dependent patient who has traveled the country seeking help for migraines and I'll hand you excaliber.

hough... is that a valid argument in med mal cases, that we missed a "fever" of 98.6 because they normally run 97.2?